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If we strictly define it as an individual that believes in separation of church and state, and that’s it, then yes. But then again, so do I.
My beef is more with secular humanists. Just for fun, who were/are some of the great leaders of large nations that were/are secular humanists?Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:50 amMG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:15 am
Look in the mirror bub.
For your information, understanding doesn’t mean acceptance in all instances. Although in a few posts along the way I've had a healthy respect for your position and why you come at certain things the way you do.
Abortion, for example. You actually went into some depth. That helped me appreciate your point of view, although I don’t accept it.
It has been a learning experience to try and understand where a person of your background and personal biases is coming from.
I am moderately literate and fully understand the difference between "understand" and "accept." I don't expect you to accept the sole claim I have been arguing throughout this thread: your statements about what "secularists" believe and the existential threat you claim they pose is based on nothing other than personal bigotry.
I will because you are.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:34 amAnd yet you believe I am doing the same to you. Simply because I disagree with your ideology of moral relativism (I’m assuming…at least to some extent…because of your non theist views.) and comfort level with ideologues (including those that take a non theist view of the world) exercising power and authority over the masses.
I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
When I describe your parade of horrible atheistic leaders as “ideologues” I’m using the word to mean the “especially” part of the following definition :MG 2.0 wrote:And if I am, what kind of ideologue would you feel comfortable with who would have some degree of influence/power over your life and freedoms that you now enjoy? Is there a certain political power/entity that is LEFT on the spectrum that WOULD concern you?
I would not describe every person who has an ideology or ideologies as an ideologue. Each of the horrible leaders you use as examples had a dogmatic ideology that they thought justified what you and I would agree are atrocities. What all had in common was that their dogmatic ideology justified an authoritarian destruction of anyone or anything they perceived as a threat to their power. With Hitler, it was one religious sect. With Stalin, it was any organized religion. How they treated some of all religious people simply isn’t explained by the mere absence of a belief in God. There is no logical inference that leads from “I don’t believe in God” to gassing Jews.an adherent of an ideology, especially one who is uncompromising and dogmatic.
I wouldn’t consider Romney an ideologue as I used the term. I’ve lived with several Republican presidents during my lifetime. I’m not sure what you mean by comfortable.MG 2.0 wrote:Do you consider Mitt Romney, for example, as an ideologue that you could comfortably live with as President? Or would it have to be a liberal/leftest of some stripe?
Probably. I think lots of things have at least some degree of influence on my political leanings. But there’s nothing about being an atheist that naturally leads someone to the left side of the political spectrum. There are lots of conservatives atheists and libertarian atheists. So, although I think my novelized has some effect, I don’t think it’s necessarily pushed me to the right or left on the political spectrum. As an aside, I identified myself as a political liberal long before I identified as a nonbeliever, so who knows how any causation worked?MG 2.0 wrote:Do your nontheist views have any influence on your political leanings whatsoever?
I don’t and never have considered you as my enemy.
You are saying my words as if they were yours. You may want to correct that.Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:44 amI will because you are.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:34 am
And yet you believe I am doing the same to you. Simply because I disagree with your ideology of moral relativism (I’m assuming…at least to some extent…because of your non theist views.) and comfort level with ideologues (including those that take a non theist view of the world) exercising power and authority over the masses.
I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
So “moral relativism” is your latest label for my ideology. So, how does that function as an ideology in the way that Mormonism functions for you or Communism functioned for Mao?
Real world example: Upon returning home from a shopping trip, I find an official looking bag full of money in one of my shopping bags. How did moral relativism function for me in deciding what I should do with it?
And if I am, what kind of ideologue would you feel comfortable with who would have some degree of influence/power over your life and freedoms that you now enjoy? Is there a certain political power/entity that is LEFT on the spectrum that WOULD concern you?
Do you consider Mitt Romney, for example, as an ideologue that you could comfortably live with as President? Or would it have to be a liberal/leftest of some stripe?
Do your nontheist views have any influence on your political leanings whatsoever?
Regards,
MG
Actually, MG may be correct in that his god may have absolutes. It's just that we cannot depend on his god displaying them with any degree of consistency.
