Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

[Shulem]

Shulem: I hope you will not mind if I continue to differ from you on the plausibility of this identification.

Of course not, it's perfectly normal to disagree when one disagrees or differs from the viewpoint of another. I'm fine with it. It's been interesting to explore esoteric symbolism within the parchments and documents in possession of the Smith family. I want to know and understand more and in doing so it forces me to ask questions and assert my view and opinion in order to arouse others in participating. And with that said, I'm an expert at pissing people off!

I will continue to research and see what I can find to support my opinion of the stars of Orion being portrayed on the Kinderhook plate as well as the parchment which Vogel spent a lot of time covering in his fantastic podcast. I really do need a little more evidence to support the case I am trying to make. I realize it seems fantastic and is somewhat subjective -- I need more evidence! I find all this to be quite interesting and more so than so many of the politically motivated threads on this board.

Thanks for chiming in and please feel free to anytime you like.

[Shulem]

Is it possible the sign for Jubanladace is associated with Orion's belt, three stars in a row?



Characters/symbols for Jubanladace, a celestial messenger:

Reginald Scot, Jubanladace

The characters that form the sign for Jubanladace are at the top of p. 498 in the link provided above. Interestingly enough, we can learn more about the nature of the Angel Jubanladace and treasure seeking beginning on the previous page 496 concerning "The distinct order of starry Spirits" as given in the paragraph title:

These Astral Spirits are variously to be considered; some are beings Separate and absolute, that are not constitute to any work or service : Others are subservient to the Angels that have dominion over the Influences of the Stars :

<snip>

When Treasure hath been hid, or any secret thing hath been committed by the party ; there is a magical cause of something attracting the starry spirit back again, to the manifestation of that thing. Upon all which, the following Chapters do insist more largely and particularly.

So, what is this starry spirit and from whence doeth it come?

Nor can it easily be denyd, That to every man, and woman, while they live the natural Life, there belongs , while they live the natural Life, there belongs a Syderial, or starry Spirit

So, what star or stars within the starry sky does this refer to? Reference to the sidereal is directly associated to the constellations of fixed stars and cannot refer to the planets! It certainly can be argued that the Orion constellation is the most well known of all constellations!

[Shulem]

here
I see something that catches my eye and am open to the possibility that it's an astronomical projection of the moon with three very specific stars.

I see the Maltese crosses but what are those three little circles? Is that a half moon? I say again, what are those little circles?
here

I wonder about those symbols in what appears to be a half moon and three stars in a row.

After further review, I'm willing to make a critical concession to my original hypotheses in identifying an object on the parchment discussed by Vogel. What if the symbol/character is not a half (or quarter) moon as originally thought? It looks like it could be and it certainly would go well with the three circles which I posit are the three stars of Orion's Belt -- but, what if the object is really something else associated with established iconographic depictions for the Hunter of the constellation in question? What if the object is actually part of the very constellation?

The constellation Orion is sometimes depicted as a hunter holding a club or sword, and SHIELD, but at other times he is depicted as holding a BOW. In both depictions he appears to be fighting the bull Taurus.

So, the Hunter is known to hold a club or sword in one hand and a shield or bow in the other. Is it possible that the symbol used to represent the magical name of Jubanladace is either an unbent bow or a shield?

Is it possible?

[Shulem]

Reginald Scot's Jubanladace: http://www.esotericarchives.com/gifs/sibly4c.jpg



The Discoverie of Witchcraft, by Reginald Scot, 1886 Edition

Compare both images and you'll see how the belt perfectly aligns to the same orientation and the alignment of the shield also matches. Thus, I propose the weapon or instrument held out-front and the 3-star belt are items incorporated and brought together within the characters that form the Jubanladace name.

Any takers? Anyone? How about you, Philo? Surely you have an opinion. What say ye?

Where are you, Dan? Say something. Anything is better than nothing at all.

[Shulem]

Jubanladace a mighty Prince in the Dominion of Thrones, he cometh unto such as follow national affairs, and are carryed forth unto warr and conquest; he beareth alwayes a flaming Sword, and is girded about, having a helmet upon his head, and appearing still before the party in the Air: he must be sollicited and invocated with Chastity, Vows, Fumes, and Prayers: and this is his* Character to be worn as a Lamin.



The Discoverie of Witchcraft, by Reginald Scot, 1886 Edition

I insist -- the last characters (other than the cross) for John Dee's Jubanladace are elements that involve astronomical signs pertaining to the heavens! Amen and Amen! So says, Shulem!

And, I will prove it, Goddmamnit. Time to connect the dots...

I suspect all this was important to Joseph Smith Sr.

[Shulem]

The characters of the angels of the seaven daies, with their names: of figures, seales and periapts.

Note how the Seven Angels are attributed to the heavenly planets. Each of the angels is given a grouping of characters and at the end of each name is assigned an astrological place of origin within heaven's zodiac consisting of: Leo, Cancer, Aries, Virgo, Sagittarius, Libra, Aquarius.



Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn!

So, is it not reasonable to assume the starry angel designated as Jubanladace also has an assigned place within the constellations? YES! It is reasonable and consistent to think that at the end of Jubanladace's name we can find symbols in which his constellation resides:



So, where in the heavens is an angel who "beareth always a flaming Sword, and is girded about, having a helmet upon his head and appearing still before the party in the Air?"

WHERE? What constellation?

Vogel, where are you? What do you make of those three little circles on Orion's waistline?

[Shulem]

Fantastically interesting Dan! Man you put a LOT of work into that! I have all kinds of fun speculation associations to make now with Joseph Smith, some of his attitudes and approaches to various things that happened in his life, etc. I am going to do a video review of this. Thanks again, just excellent updating of Quinn too.

IF you do a video review of Vogel's excellent podcast (I love it), please mention the symbols of Jubanladace as a possible reference to Orion's Belt.

Otherwise, you'll drop the ball and that's not good when you're trying to score points. You can trust Shulem to get it right, Goddamnit.

[Boomer57]

Note how the Seven Angels are attributed to the heavenly planets. Each of the angels is given a grouping of characters and at the end of each name is assigned an astrological place of origin within heaven's zodiac consisting of: Leo, Cancer, Aries, Virgo, Sagittarius, Libra, Aquarius.



Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Uranus

I think that last sign for the planets is for Saturn, not Uranus..

[Shulem]

I think that last sign for the planets is for Saturn, not Uranus..

You thought right and made an Uranus out me!

I knew something was wrong about my list and couldn't finger it (no pun intended) and now I have to go back and fix it before Vogel finds out.

[Shulem]

Let's juxtapose Johannes Hevelius' 1687 work of art with Orion's Belt and see how the THREE STARS (3) line up perfectly with Jubanladace's stars:






OPEN YOUR EYES, PEOPLE!

Is anyone convinced, yet?

Jesus.