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An intriguing item has been posted today over at "Sic et Non." Naturally, Dr. Peterson is "celebrating" the death of Joseph Smith...sort of. Here is a tidbit of his commentary:

Thomas Sharp and others among the conspirators confidently anticipated that the Church would collapse if Joseph were eliminated. Quite obviously, though, it has not. The Quorum of the Twelve — under its president, Brigham Young — assumed leadership of the Church and of the large majority of the faithful Saints (a story that we intend to tell in our film project Six Days in August) and led them westward to a new place of refuge in the remote Great Basin West, from which the Gospel has continued to be preached under continuing apostolic leadership.

Of course, this ignores the so-called "succession crisis," in which the Church that Joseph Smith founded wound up splintering into multiple factions--hence why his Six Days in August is, among other things, an avowedly anti-Community of Christ film, and why he repeatedly cracks anti-Strangite jokes (such as that he wants Pee-Wee Herman to portray Strang in his film).

Ultimately, though, the post devolves into a roundabout and rather long-winded attack on the Church's enemies. He takes aim at the town of Carthage, and at the Illinois leaders that were behind Smith's murder:

So what does Carthage look like today? My impression of it is that it is the town that time forgot. It’s a small, somnolent place in which the only point of interest is the jail where Joseph and Hyrum were murdered — which is now owned by the Church and which, in its way, functions as something of a shrine to their memory. Latter-day Saint visitors come to Carthage to remember their history and to pay tribute to Joseph and Hyrum.

This is, putting it mildly, something that neither Governor Thomas Ford nor Thomas Sharp and his cronies expected. Once prominent in Illinois state politics, they are now remembered, to the extent that they are remembered at all, as unpleasant and dishonorable footnotes to the story of Joseph, Hyrum, and the Latter-day Saints.

This is, it seems to me, a very common Mopologetic tactic: the appeal to how well-known something is, or how "popular" it is. The point here seems to be that "the Church is true!" because the Carthage jail is now a Mormon tourist attraction, whereas Ford and Sharp are barely "remembered at all." Of course, this is pretty much a textbook example of argumentum ad populum --the classic logical fallacy wherein someone suggests that something is "true" or right on the basis of a majority opinion. (Perhaps the even more common Mopologetic tactic is the appeal to authority, where DCP attempts to claim that something is "correct" by listing the person's academic credentials and university appointments.)

Sadly for DCP, Billy Shears offers up a powerful rebuttal:

Billy Shears wrote:DP: This is, putting it mildly, something that neither Governor Thomas Ford nor Thomas Sharp and his cronies expected. Once prominent in Illinois state politics, they are now remembered, to the extent that they are remembered at all, as unpleasant and dishonorable footnotes to the story of Joseph, Hyrum, and the Latter-day Saints.

That's not really true. For example, Thomas Ford's History of Illinois is still in-print by the University of Illinois press, and claims Ford had "an unrivaled sensitivity to the dynamics of frontier life," and says his book is "the outstanding early survey of Illinois history."

Ford's biography on "Genealogy Trails" says:

The estimate in which he was held by his neighbors and friends, is well attested by the action taken by the Grand Jury of Peoria County on November 23. 1850. This body was composed of leading citizens from all parts of the country, with Andrew Gray as Foreman and John Elting, Secretary. They resolved that, by the death of Governor Ford the State of Illinois had lost one of her purest and ablest statesmen, whose unerring judgment and practical wisdom had saved the State from the blighting effects of repudiation in the hour of great trial and emergency, and whose firmness and decision had contributed mainly to the lessening of our heavy State debt, and to the enactment of that series of measures which had produced so much prosperity and confidence among our people, restored the credit of our State and laid the sure foundation for beneficial results, such as no imagination could conceive or prophecy foretell. As State's Attorney he had discharged his duties faithfully and successfully; as a Judge he had been impartial, laborious and just, and, as a man and citizen, he had been one of "the noblest works of God." He had won his way from a fatherless boy to eminence, and had left a bright example to those behind him. that virtue, industry and fidelity insure success and will be crowned with triumph.

D'oh! Obviously stung, Dr. Peterson offers up this response:

DCP wrote:Do an informal survey. How many people recognize the name "Joseph Smith" -- not only nationally but internationally? How many recognize the name "Thomas Ford"?

And what about Thomas Sharp? Would any non-Latter-day Saints in, say, Tahiti or Mongolia or Austria recognize his name?

Come on. I know, BS, that you relish contradicting me, but you're really reaching here.

Huh. Would any non-Latter-day Saints in, say, Tahini or Mongolia or Austria recognize the name Joseph Smith? And if they did, what do you suppose their opinion of him would be, most likely?

In any case, Billy Shears continues to lay the smack down on Prof. P.:

Billy Shears wrote:DP I know, BS, that you relish contradicting me, but you're really reaching here.

You're missing the point. Was Thomas Sharp a mere "unpleasant and dishonorable footnote to the story of Joseph, Hyrum, and the Latter-day Saints"? I suppose. I certainly don't have a basis to argue with you on that point.

But the same isn't true of Governor Ford. Is Ford's name as well known as the man who secretly "married" teenage girls behind his wife's back? Of course not. But that isn't my point. Ford was an honorable public servant who served on the Illinois Supreme Court and had an effective term of governor where he had major accomplishments to strengthen the state. Yes, when he died of tuberculosis at the age of 38 he was broke. But that's what one would expect from honorable public servants who never took bribes and then died young.

Governor Ford wrote:

But the great cause of popular fury was, that the Mormons at several preceding elections, had cast their vote as a unit thereby making the fact apparent, that no one could aspire to the honors or offices of the country within the sphere of their influence, without their approbation and votes. It appears to be one of the principles by which they insist upon being governed as a community, to act as a unit in all matters of government and religion. They express themselves to be fearful that if division should be encouraged in politics, it would soon extend to their religion, and rend their church with schism and into sects. This seems to me to be an unfortunate view of the subject, and more unfortunate in practice, as I am well satisfied that it must be the fruitful source of excitement, violence, and mobocracy, whilst it is persisted in. It is indeed unfortunate for their peace that they do not divide in elections, according to their individual preferences or political principles, like other people.

Wise advice, which the Church eventually took to heart.

It always bothers me when Latter-day Saints juxtapose Joseph Smith with Thomas Ford, and then slander Thomas Ford in order to boost up Joseph Smith. In terms of lasting fame, Joseph Smith won. Of course. But in terms of wisdom and character? Thomas Ford wins. Hands down.

Ouch. This is bound to undercut whatever solemn adulation that Dr. Peterson was attempting to invoke on this anniversary of Joseph Smith's assassination. Maybe next time he should stick to Joseph Smith's accomplishments and positive qualities, instead of trying to prop up the Prophet via trashing other people? Old Mopologetic habits die hard, I suppose.

Or, to riff on a phrase coined by Peterson's late comrade, Joseph Smith is butthead. If, dear reader, you prefer, it could simply be Peterson is butthead.

So the contrast here is Carthage, which is now a Mormon tourist attraction, versus Nauvoo, which is . . . a much bigger Mormon tourist attraction?

I have no doubt Joseph Smith is far better known than Thomas Ford, but you would be surprised how many people neither know nor want to know about Joseph Smith. He is not known for his wisdom or charity or for advocacy of any political position that was ahead of his time; he is usually not cited approvingly by non-Mormons unless those non-Mormons have a quasi-Mormon background or are specifically engaged in friendly dialogue with Mormons. He is known for three things: (1) founding Mormonism (which most people are not interested in); (2) writing the Book of Mormon (which most people are not interested in); (3) polygamy (which many people are interested in, though the LDS church probably wishes they weren't).

Contrast that to people like Bartolomé de las Casas, Juana Inés de la Cruz, and William Wilberforce, who are known almost entirely for their virtue and for trying to leave the world a better place than it was when they found it.

It’s worth noting that for many years the church was a strong enemy to the people, the laws, and the ideals of the United States. If they had their way, we would be living next to a theocratic state of Deseret. One which probably still had legalized slavery and polygamy.

It’s a lucky accident of history that Mormonism ended up as a relatively obscure religion with political control over only one of the 50 states, subjugated by the federal government.

Praise to the men who opposed Joseph Smith.

So if Adolf Hitler is better remembered than some mayor of a random town in Iceland that means Hitler is more spiritually significant?

This is crazy stuff.

It’s impossible to have a conversation with DCP. Billy Shears, Noel, and David Sanders are really trying. But it’s incredibly unproductive when they try to seek clarification and DCP just curls into a reflexive ball and says “nu uh, I didn’t say that u r so dum.”

It’s really easy to see why gemli left, and difficult to see how he managed to stay so long.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:31 am

So if Adolf Hitler is better remembered than some mayor of a random town in Iceland that means Hitler is more spiritually significant?

This is crazy stuff.

Ha! But lets not tell the Mopologists, it would be over their heads.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:15 am

It’s impossible to have a conversation with DCP. Billy Shears, Noel, and David Sanders are really trying. But it’s incredibly unproductive when they try to seek clarification and DCP just curls into a reflexive ball and says “nu uh, I didn’t say that u r so dum.”

It’s really easy to see why gemli left, and difficult to see how he managed to stay so long.

Agreed. This is what happens when you are left with no arguments that are defendable or logically conclusive to verify one's religious predilections, such as we see with DCP. He is reduced to inanities. That in itself is a testimony builders for our side.

It is truly embarrassing reading those comments from DCP.

This is where a lifetime of being a "defender" of Mormonism leads? Does DCP realize how ridiculous he looks? Does DCP think he is doing a good job defending his "position?"

The more I see of DCP's behavior, the more I firmly believe Voltaire wrote this about DCP/Mopology:

“I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it."

― Voltaire

The Church would've had a much easier time if an aggrieved father or husband had taken out Joseph. The Church could have drawn and quartered the man and thus had a much easier time dealing with their anger.

Even Dr. Peterson would concede that a symbolic repeat drawing and quartering is unnecessary.