DiscussMormonism.com

“DCP” wrote: Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continue to carp, caterwaul, and complain about the size of its financial reserves, which seem (by the way) to have expanded dramatically over the past year or two, in the way that telephone-game tales often do, from an unconfirmed 50 billion dollars, to 100 billion, to 150 billion, to 200 billion, and, from what I’ve recently heard, to an unconfirmed and probably hallucinatory 250 billion dollars. (I can only wish that my investments would do one quarter so well!)

Either Dan has been willfully ignorant of the reams of reporting done on this issue, including the invaluable Widow’s Mite Report, or he is yet again being purposefully deceptive.

https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/

LOL!

I think the outrage comes from considering the stockpiling of billions of dollars as contrary to the spirit of public good that churches are assumed to provide and for which they are granted the privilege of tax exemption.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:09 pm

LOL!

I think the outrage comes from considering the stockpiling of billions of dollars as contrary to the spirit of public good that churches are assumed to provide and for which they are granted the privilege of tax exemption.

Exactly. Consider what we just learned from drumdude's other recent post. The stockpiling of billions is not in character with the church he is accustomed to so the allegations must be anti-Mormon lies. No further reading required.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:24 pm

Exactly. Consider what we just learned from drumdude's other recent post. The stockpiling of billions is not in character with the church he is accustomed to so the allegations must be anti-Mormon lies. No further reading required.

There is a real credibility problem that haunts those who accept no critique as legitimate. Effectively, the LDS Church acknowledges no outside or internal criticism as having any legitimate basis. That is the reason why people do not trust them. Only the most loyal internal supporters, and I would say loyal to a fault, could refuse to see some legitimate cause for concern here.

I vote purposefully deceptive. He defends the lack of transparency and then calls those "crazy" for believing the whistleblowers and putting two and two together after the SEC fines that the church agreed to. It's obvious what's going on and yet he attempts to gaslight the public. Thank whatever is out there that the nonsense he defends is not more popular, that he isn't that popular with the dupes he attempts to gaslight.

I would hope they had more than that given how much they receive in tithes.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:37 pm

Either Dan has been willfully ignorant of the reams of reporting done on this issue, including the invaluable Widow’s Mite Report, or he is yet again being purposefully deceptive.

Either he is using entheogenic compounds or he is being deceptive. Which of these two things does he have a history with?

$50 billion is not “unconfirmed.” That much in liquid (publicly traded) investments is disclosed in the SEC 13F, which is a regulatory disclosure for large holders of certain publicly traded securities (stocks, options, ETFs, convertible stock and warrants). I just checked the latest 13F and it’s $49.3 billion.

13F securities are pretty narrow in terms of the types of investments available to large money managers. 13F does not cover any others, such as real estate, bonds, US treasuries, mutual funds, private equity, venture capital. The church is known to be active in all of them.

So there is no point in defenders of the faith quibbling over $50 billion or $100 or $150 or even $200 billion. That line of “defense” only conveys willful ignorance.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:37 pm

“DCP” wrote: Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continue to carp, caterwaul, and complain about the size of its financial reserves, which seem (by the way) to have expanded dramatically over the past year or two, in the way that telephone-game tales often do, from an unconfirmed 50 billion dollars, to 100 billion, to 150 billion, to 200 billion, and, from what I’ve recently heard, to an unconfirmed and probably hallucinatory 250 billion dollars. (I can only wish that my investments would do one quarter so well!)

Either Dan has been willfully ignorant of the reams of reporting done on this issue, including the invaluable Widow’s Mite Report, or he is yet again being purposefully deceptive.

https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/

Which parts of...

The SEC’s order finds that, from 1997 through 2019, Ensign Peak failed to file Forms 13F, the forms on which investment managers are required to disclose the value of certain securities they manage. According to the order, the Church was concerned that disclosure of its portfolio, which by 2018 grew to approximately $32 billion, would lead to negative consequences.

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-35

And...

A former investment manager for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says that the organization stockpiled more than $100bn in funding intended for charity work but never spent it on such projects.

“It was really a clandestine hedge fund,” David A Nielsen said during an interview with CBS’s 60 Minutes. “Once the money went in, it didn’t go out.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... hedge-fund

Does DCP think critics have invented out of whole cloth?

It’s just baffling to me because normally DCP values accurate reporting and facts. I expect he will offer a retraction and public apology shortly to correct his mistake.