DiscussMormonism.com

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:10 am**

Here’s what Jacob Hess and Stephen Cranney claim in a recent Deseret News article:

While we might see pockets of growing irreligion here and there (and even those tend to be exaggerated, as strong majorities of Europeans still believe in God, and many in the biblical God), religion and spirituality has a powerful, natural part to play in our society, and the church is a part of that story.

https://www.deseret.com/2023/9/27/23893 ... conference

Here’s the data they reference and rely upon in making that claim:

After asking respondents whether they believe in God or not, the survey asked further questions to better understand what belief in God (or lack thereof) means to people.16 Based on their responses to follow-up questions, researchers categorized respondents into one of three groups: 1) those who believe in God as described in the Bible; 2) those who do not believe in God as described in the Bible, but do believe there is some other higher power or spiritual force in the universe; and 3) those who do not believe in God or any higher power.17

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... about-god/

That’s not a “strong majority” believing in God.
27% expressed a belief in God as per the Bible
38% expressed in another higher force or supernatural force
26% expressed complete disbelief

The survey also notes that Muslims were excluded from the survey which was specifically concerned with survey “Christianity”. As were responses that gave responses of - Don’t know, other, both, neither, depends, and refused to answer.

The claim that “strong majorities of Europeans still believe in God” simply isn’t supported by the source they rely upon.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:53 am**

Seems they are fudging a bit.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:12 pm**

Probably an innocent mistake, that sentence reads much more naturally with the phrase "strong minorities."

A majority is strong by definition.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:35 pm**

They're counting "not the Biblical God, but some higher power or something" as "God but just not the Biblical God". That may not be universally agreed terminology but it's not a specially invented twist, either. People have been speaking that way for centuries, even if only because for a long time it was safer for anyone who diverged from common religions to still profess a belief in "God, just not exactly as you conceive God".

If you count it that way, 65% would be a strong majority in most legislatures, and the way the article summarises the Pew survey isn't misleading. The article doesn't go out of its way to emphasise that European believers in the Biblical God are much less than a strong majority, but its phrasing does (accurately) suggest that.

The table captions in the Pew PDF mostly mention that some responses weren't counted because they somehow didn't fit, but I couldn't find out how many responses were suppressed this way. The table captions all refer to the methodology section, but I couldn't find that section.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:39 pm**

Physics Guy wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:35 pm
They're counting "not the Biblical God, but some higher power or something" as "God but just not the Biblical God". That may not be universally agreed terminology but it's not a specially invented twist, either. People have been speaking that way for centuries, even if only because for a long time it was safer for anyone who diverged from common religions to still profess a belief in "God, just not exactly as you conceive God".

If you count it that way, 65% would be a strong majority in most legislatures, and the way the article summarises the Pew survey isn't misleading. The article doesn't go out of its way to emphasise that European believers in the Biblical God are much less than a strong majority, but its phrasing does (accurately) suggest that.

The table captions in the Pew PDF mostly mention that some responses weren't counted because they somehow didn't fit, but I couldn't find out how many responses were suppressed this way. The table captions all refer to the methodology section, but I couldn't find that section.

That's the way I read it. Almost two-thirds is fairly described as a strong majority. 51% would be an example of a bare or thin majority.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:02 pm**

Physics Guy wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:35 pm
They're counting "not the Biblical God, but some higher power or something" as "God but just not the Biblical God". That may not be universally agreed terminology but it's not a specially invented twist, either. People have been speaking that way for centuries, even if only because for a long time it was safer for anyone who diverged from common religions to still profess a belief in "God, just not exactly as you conceive God".

I disagree. A respondent who expressed belief in Karma, say, is then labelled by the report as saying they believe in God. Clearly they don’t. The same would apply for people who believe in nature/the planet earth being a higher power. Or those who believe in Thetans. Etc. Those aren’t people who can rightly be labelled as believers in “ God”.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:22 am**

On the other hand, isn’t strange to insist that God has to be an old guy with a white beard sitting on a golden throne? Some prominent atheists try to insist that only this is a real God belief, but that is pretty silly. Go read some Neoplatonic philosophy and tell me that God has to be an old man on a throne. Certainly they did not think so.

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Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God

Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God

Re: Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans belief in God

Re: Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God

Re: Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God

Re: Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God

Re: Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God

Re: Deseret News article seeks to mislead readers about Europeans’ belief in God