Thank you IHQ (and Res Ipsa). Shows how much out of the loop I am. I didn't know that the physical "for leader eyes only," and "general members can look at this one... but only in the presence of a leader" books were no longer a thing.
Being corrected, and learning something new makes for a good day.
There's certainly no ambiguity or wiggle room (in my opinion) in the policy IHQ quoted.
The interesting thing to think about is how a deceased woman being sealed to more than one husband works in an eternal setting where families are sealed together for eternity. You’ve got women with multiple husbands, husbands with multiple wives…what, exactly, is an eternal family’s living arrangement with those kind of sealed connections? It completely undermines the idea of happy families living together in eternal bliss. Especially as there’s to be sexual relations in the Celestial Kingdom - will these kind of family set ups need some type of rota system for who’s turn it is?
The devil is in the details. For fun, try and get a Mormon to explain how it’s all going work. Very quickly they’ll turn to “God will sort it all out, we just need to have faith” as a way of ending the chat.
Yep. I've got a fairly simple example in my own family. My sister was married and sealed to husband 1 in the temple. Husband number 1 died. She was then civilly married to husband number 2. Then she died. Husband number 2 but not remarried.
Here's the rule from the handbook:
38.4.1.7
Sealing of Deceased Persons
This section applies to deceased persons being sealed to spouses who are also deceased. If one of the spouses is still living, see 38.4.1.3.
Deceased Women. A deceased woman may be sealed to all men to whom she was legally married during her life. The following table shows when these sealings may take place.
She was not sealed to a husband in life: She may be sealed to all living or deceased men to whom she was married in life. If the man is living, his wife (if he is married) must give written consent. If the man is deceased, his widow (if any) must give written consent.
She was sealed to a husband in life: All her husbands must be deceased before she is sealed to other men to whom she was married. This includes former husbands from whom she may have been divorced. Each of the men’s widows (if any) must give written consent.
If she had not been sealed to either husband, she could today be sealed to both of them. But because she was sealed to husband 1, she cannot be sealed to husband 2 until he dies. Once husband 2 dies, she can be sealed to both if someone chooses to do the proxy work.
How does one make any sense out of that? If I ask, I get the same response you do.
he/him When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
In the example from your family:
If Husband 2 remarried and was sealed to his new wife. In turn they both die. Your sister could be sealed to Husband 2 even though he’s already sealed to some else.
So in the eternities the family unit would be (I think):
Husband 1 & Husband 2 with your sister, but also Husband 2 would have a second wife who was sealed in a unit with your sister, but not sealed in a unit with your sister’s Husband 1. I think…
In the example from your family:
If Husband 2 remarried and was sealed to his new wife. In turn they both die. Your sister could be sealed to Husband 2 even though he’s already sealed to some else.
So in the eternities the family unit would be (I think):
Husband 1 & Husband 2 with your sister, but also Husband 2 would have a second wife who was sealed in a unit with your sister, but not sealed in a unit with your sister’s Husband 1. I think…
It’s nuts.
I think you've got it right. And I agree that it's nuts.
he/him When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Thank you IHQ (and Res Ipsa). Shows how much out of the loop I am. I didn't know that the physical "for leader eyes only," and "general members can look at this one... but only in the presence of a leader" books were no longer a thing.
Being corrected, and learning something new makes for a good day.
There's certainly no ambiguity or wiggle room (in my opinion) in the policy IHQ quoted.
The interesting thing to think about is how a deceased woman being sealed to more than one husband works in an eternal setting where families are sealed together for eternity. You’ve got women with multiple husbands, husbands with multiple wives…what, exactly, is an eternal family’s living arrangement with those kind of sealed connections? It completely undermines the idea of happy families living together in eternal bliss. Especially as there’s to be sexual relations in the Celestial Kingdom - will these kind of family set ups need some type of rota system for who’s turn it is?
The devil is in the details. For fun, try and get a Mormon to explain how it’s all going work. Very quickly they’ll turn to “God will sort it all out, we just need to have faith” as a way of ending the chat.
I imagine that if we have no bodies, we don't feel weather so won't need houses and maybe it will be like how the 60s were portrayed. Where everyone just has love and frolics around in fields playing? Maybe?
The interesting thing to think about is how a deceased woman being sealed to more than one husband works in an eternal setting where families are sealed together for eternity. You’ve got women with multiple husbands, husbands with multiple wives…what, exactly, is an eternal family’s living arrangement with those kind of sealed connections? It completely undermines the idea of happy families living together in eternal bliss. Especially as there’s to be sexual relations in the Celestial Kingdom - will these kind of family set ups need some type of rota system for who’s turn it is?
The devil is in the details. For fun, try and get a Mormon to explain how it’s all going work. Very quickly they’ll turn to “God will sort it all out, we just need to have faith” as a way of ending the chat.
Yep. I've got a fairly simple example in my own family. My sister was married and sealed to husband 1 in the temple. Husband number 1 died. She was then civilly married to husband number 2. Then she died. Husband number 2 but not remarried.
Here's the rule from the handbook:
38.4.1.7
Sealing of Deceased Persons
This section applies to deceased persons being sealed to spouses who are also deceased. If one of the spouses is still living, see 38.4.1.3.
Deceased Women. A deceased woman may be sealed to all men to whom she was legally married during her life. The following table shows when these sealings may take place.
She was not sealed to a husband in life: She may be sealed to all living or deceased men to whom she was married in life. If the man is living, his wife (if he is married) must give written consent. If the man is deceased, his widow (if any) must give written consent.
She was sealed to a husband in life: All her husbands must be deceased before she is sealed to other men to whom she was married. This includes former husbands from whom she may have been divorced. Each of the men’s widows (if any) must give written consent.
If she had not been sealed to either husband, she could today be sealed to both of them. But because she was sealed to husband 1, she cannot be sealed to husband 2 until he dies. Once husband 2 dies, she can be sealed to both if someone chooses to do the proxy work.
How does one make any sense out of that? If I ask, I get the same response you do.
This is just deranged. So, is this a case of laws of the land not allowing more than one sealing? But in heaven these laws don't apply?
Yep. I've got a fairly simple example in my own family. My sister was married and sealed to husband 1 in the temple. Husband number 1 died. She was then civilly married to husband number 2. Then she died. Husband number 2 but not remarried.
If she had not been sealed to either husband, she could today be sealed to both of them. But because she was sealed to husband 1, she cannot be sealed to husband 2 until he dies. Once husband 2 dies, she can be sealed to both if someone chooses to do the proxy work.
How does one make any sense out of that? If I ask, I get the same response you do.
This is just deranged. So, is this a case of laws of the land not allowing more than one sealing? But in heaven these laws don't apply?
I honestly have no clue. At least in the U.S., I don't think the law applies to sealings, which are purely religious ceremonies with no legal recognition.
he/him When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
This is just deranged. So, is this a case of laws of the land not allowing more than one sealing? But in heaven these laws don't apply?
I honestly have no clue. At least in the U.S., I don't think the law applies to sealings, which are purely religious ceremonies with no legal recognition.
It’s the same in the UK. Temple sealings are not recognised in law as marriages. So a civil marriage service is required before couples go and get sealed in the temple.
I honestly have no clue. At least in the U.S., I don't think the law applies to sealings, which are purely religious ceremonies with no legal recognition.
It’s the same in the UK. Temple sealings are not recognised in law as marriages. So a civil marriage service is required before couples go and get sealed in the temple.
Wonder why the rules are different for living people and dead people then.
It’s the same in the UK. Temple sealings are not recognised in law as marriages. So a civil marriage service is required before couples go and get sealed in the temple.
Wonder why the rules are different for living people and dead people then.
It’s a mess. You would be excommunicated for being married to more than one living spouse. But the current President of the Church is sealed to more than one spouse (only one is living) and fully expects to live with both of them as a family unit forever in the eternities. How can something be worthy of excommunication, but simultaneously be something the President is actively doing?
Wonder why the rules are different for living people and dead people then.
It’s a mess. You would be excommunicated for being married to more than one living spouse. But the current President of the Church is sealed to more than one spouse (only one is living) and fully expects to live with both of them as a family unit forever in the eternities. How can something be worthy of excommunication, but simultaneously be something the President is actively doing?
Unless sealings and marriage are considered to be two different things? Plural marriage would be polygamy which is illegal and outdated in the LDS church. Is multiple sealings considered polygamous?
