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Prophecy after the facts: it occurs at times in religious literature.

I need help on this one. Joseph Smith reported that he was visited by Angel Moroni in 1823 and was told something about being known for good and evil et. al. And if I remember right, I even think it was part of the missionary discussions in 1980.

Can someone list of few points about this and similar things such a 19th century LDS church crisis where suddenly a first vision was announced with two individuals, Moroni's visit was announced, the twelve apostles were announced. Some I believe were prophecy after the fact and some where Joseph Smith was either alone or might have been with a couple others thinking that they need to keep seasoned saints in and new converts arriving.

I will add that the LDS church of today seems to have 15 apostles. I believe the Church in the first century had 12 and when one passed away, they drew lots, but kept it at twelve. I don't believe the first century head of the church who was Peter was known as a Prophet. Prophets' and Prophetess' were part of the Hebrew Bible.

When googling Moroni's visit; 1823, Joseph Smith; known for good and evil I get a whole list of Moroni's prophecy fulfilled by FARMS, BYU studies et. al. as it's the whole first page and I wonder if someone have contacted Google or have computer skills to ensure that's what one conducting a search sees first.

I'm sure it's two plus two for Mrs. Tanner but I need some clarification if someone has read up on these issues.

Thank you.

I always thought it was the quorum of the 12.

https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org ... s?lang=eng

AHH wait I see what you mean....

Ok so the original apostles, has Jesus as the prophet if you like. I doubt Jesus needed counsellors given that he was Jesus.

yellowstone123 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:32 pm

When googling Moroni's visit; 1823, Joseph Smith; known for good and evil I get a whole list of Moroni's prophecy fulfilled by FARMS, BYU studies et. al. as it's the whole first page and I wonder if someone have contacted Google or have computer skills to ensure that's what one conducting a search sees first.

Thank you.

Google search results algorithms are based on a variety of factors, all of which the Church pays people in house to manipulate. Last article I read about this (I couldn't find it) reported an entire floor at the COB of employees dedicated to ensuring that positive returns were at the top for Google searches and other social media inquiries.

Fence Sitter wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:58 pm

yellowstone123 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:32 pm

When googling Moroni's visit; 1823, Joseph Smith; known for good and evil I get a whole list of Moroni's prophecy fulfilled by FARMS, BYU studies et. al. as it's the whole first page and I wonder if someone have contacted Google or have computer skills to ensure that's what one conducting a search sees first.

Thank you.

Google search results algorithms are based on a variety of factors, all of which the Church pays people in house to manipulate. Last article I read about this (I couldn't find it) reported an entire floor at the COB of employees dedicated to ensuring that positive returns were at the top for Google searches and other social media inquiries.

Yep. Very similar to Scientology. If you have a lot of problematic stuff to hide, you go to great lengths to hide it.

Fence Sitter wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:58 pm

yellowstone123 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:32 pm

When googling Moroni's visit; 1823, Joseph Smith; known for good and evil I get a whole list of Moroni's prophecy fulfilled by FARMS, BYU studies et. al. as it's the whole first page and I wonder if someone have contacted Google or have computer skills to ensure that's what one conducting a search sees first.

Thank you.

Google search results algorithms are based on a variety of factors, all of which the Church pays people in house to manipulate. Last article I read about this (I couldn't find it) reported an entire floor at the COB of employees dedicated to ensuring that positive returns were at the top for Google searches and other social media inquiries.

Lost my post lol. There was a discussion about this not long ago. Perhaps the article could be attached in there. Can't remember if it was or not.

Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:46 pm

AHH wait I see what you mean....

Ok so the original apostles, had Jesus as the prophet if you like. I doubt Jesus needed counsellors given that he was Jesus.

The Disciples at that time never fulfilled the role of Board of Directors since they were involved with religion rather than religion acting as a front for a multi-billion dollar business.

Moksha wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:18 pm

Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:46 pm

AHH wait I see what you mean....

Ok so the original apostles, had Jesus as the prophet if you like. I doubt Jesus needed counsellors given that he was Jesus.

The Disciples at that time never fulfilled the role of Board of Directors since they were involved with religion rather than religion acting as a front for a multi-billion dollar business.

Just to clarify... In no way to I consider the Q12 even remotely similar to the disciples. Was just responding to the comparison between the disciples and jesus and the 12 and the 3 in terms of number. Perhaps that was the idea... Prophet and councillors being like jesus and the 12 LDS church apostles and 12 disciples. Created by design of Joseph Smith to create that feel and sense of importance. Kind of clever really. But no. The LDS apostles are not the same as the disciples.

Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:24 pm

Created by design of Joseph Smith to create that feel and sense of importance. Kind of clever really. But no. The LDS apostles are not the same as the disciples.

The Traveling Quorum of the Twelve Apostles was never envisioned by Joseph to fulfill that role. It was an idea developed by Brigham Young in his power grab. Sort of wish Joseph has refrained from 12 and perhaps used 11 or 13.

Moksha wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:30 pm

Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:24 pm

Created by design of Joseph Smith to create that feel and sense of importance. Kind of clever really. But no. The LDS apostles are not the same as the disciples.

The Traveling Quorum of the Twelve Apostles was never envisioned by Joseph to fulfill that role. It was an idea developed by Brigham Young in his power grab. Sort of wish Joseph has refrained from 12 and perhaps used 11 or 13.

AHH I see. 12 seems like a big number. I'm not even sure what they all do in the church to be honest. I just imagine them eating together and talking about upcoming talks they are planning.