DiscussMormonism.com

msnobody wrote:What the heck has Trump got to do with it?

A fair question. Nomomo is an infrequent, low-content poster who throws down angry OPs, and then doesn't really discuss much from there. Most often, his OPs are rants against right-wing politics, often Trump, and religion is a part of that political conversation. And so I'm responding to Nomomo's post as an installment within a broader dialogue he's having with the board in his unique, fragmented way.

As an example to Nomomo's religion and Trump intersection, see this post:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=131734

Why Are Mormons More Asininely Stupid than Catholics? 46% of Latter-day Saints believe the “Big Lie” while among Catholics only 35% believe the "Big Lie".

And so I'm analyzing Nomomo's thoughts here as part of his own bigger picture, and in this case, he's being counter productive to his stand against right-wing poltiics.

Yes, technically, believing in resurrection and Eternal life is silly; unfortunately, it's far more silly than believing in Trump -- the odds of Trump making America great again are substantially higher than the odds of a Christian heaven, and it's probably by a long shot. Same for the odds of a rigged election. What Nomomo needs to understand is that there are certain cultural norms and beliefs that even if wrong, aren't easy to get past. If he were born into a Christian household, he's most likely to be Christian. If I were born in 2000 BC Egypt, I'd be worshipping the Egyptian gods like everyone else. Very intelligent good people will reflect their cultural heritage, even if it's packed with nonsense from a factual point of view.

You can't really fault people too much for their well-established cultural heritage.

Hmmmm. A founder who was convicted of fraudulent treasure seeking with a seer stone, to finding Golden Plates which he then translated with the same seer stone, to then fraudulently ruining a bank and the financial lives of thousands, to then lying about his polygamy and then destroying a printing press to keep his lie out of the public's eye.

If I were a critical thinker, I might see a pattern here.

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:38 pm

Hmmmm. A founder who was convicted of fraudulent treasure seeking with a seer stone, to finding Golden Plates which he then translated with the same seer stone, to then fraudulently ruining a bank and the financial lives of thousands, to then lying about his polygamy and then destroying a printing press to keep his lie out of the public's eye.

If I were a critical thinker, I might see a pattern here.

Maybe you just have a 'Beautiful Mind.'

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:22 am

msnobody wrote:What the heck has Trump got to do with it?

A fair question. Nomomo is an infrequent, low-content poster who throws down angry OPs, and then doesn't really discuss much from there. Most often, his OPs are rants against right-wing politics, often Trump, and religion is a part of that political conversation. And so I'm responding to Nomomo's post as an installment within a broader dialogue he's having with the board in his unique, fragmented way.

As an example to Nomomo's religion and Trump intersection, see this post:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=131734

Why Are Mormons More Asininely Stupid than Catholics? 46% of Latter-day Saints believe the “Big Lie” while among Catholics only 35% believe the "Big Lie".

And so I'm analyzing Nomomo's thoughts here as part of his own bigger picture, and in this case, he's being counter productive to his stand against right-wing poltiics.

Yes, technically, believing in resurrection and Eternal life is silly; unfortunately, it's far more silly than believing in Trump -- the odds of Trump making America great again are substantially higher than the odds of a Christian heaven, and it's probably by a long shot. Same for the odds of a rigged election. What Nomomo needs to understand is that there are certain cultural norms and beliefs that even if wrong, aren't easy to get past. If he were born into a Christian household, he's most likely to be Christian. If I were born in 2000 BC Egypt, I'd be worshipping the Egyptian gods like everyone else. Very intelligent good people will reflect their cultural heritage, even if it's packed with nonsense from a factual point of view.

You can't really fault people too much for their well-established cultural heritage.

Gadianton, I think you make a good clarification of nomomo's post. I do find I have some reservations about your statistical comparison. I understand you flat out do not believe in a resurrection and from that angle the chances are zero. But I do not think there is any basis for making a statistical measurement. We do not know if there is life after death and with that unknown people may believe it and that statistical likelihood would be unknown.

That is a minor point in a way, after all will not alter one iota anybody's belief. I will mention a personal observation that might apply. If there is no life after death I still think Christianity embodies needed human truths that the human family needs. Christianity and resurrection would remain more true than our images without it. Yes I know those ideals are not exclusive to Christianity and are regularly muddied up in Christian society.

I don't think that we should be judging them because frankly, you believe that a guy from upstate New York found some old golden plates that had chronicles of Jews who were Ancestors of Native Americans. Personally (and this is an OPINION), judging someone else for their beliefs while being a follower of Christ is even more stupid, because why would you want to act worldly while you are supposed to be loving, caring, and compassionate? And how did Trump get into the topic?

pieemilypie wrote: ↑

Wed May 01, 2024 3:27 am

And how did Trump get into the topic?

My guess is as an aberration of the American experience.

I don’t think Christianity is insane or stupid. Human beings live by experiences and stories. Not all experiences and stories are helpful, but the story of a loving God seeking to save the world by entering it and giving everything to make it happen is a very lovely human(e) story. Those who come to embrace that story because of a profound personal experience such as msnobody alluded to find their lives deeply enriched by it. What I hope is not that Christians stop believing in this story but that they live the best possible outcomes it can bring them and others. Our problem today is not Christianity but heretical Christianity of certain kinds:

1. Prosperity Gospel
2. Christian Identity
3. Christian Nationalism
4. Messianic Trumpism
5. Dominionism

The list could go on and on. The perversion of Christianity into these false ideologies comes partly from the abandonment of robust theology in America’s seminaries. Good Christian education ought to stamp out bad Christian education.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Wed May 01, 2024 11:10 am

I don’t think Christianity is insane or stupid. Human beings live by experiences and stories. Not all experiences and stories are helpful, but the story of a loving God seeking to save the world by entering it and giving everything to make it happen is a very lovely human(e) story. Those who come to embrace that story because of a profound personal experience such as msnobody alluded to find their lives deeply enriched by it. What I hope is not that Christians stop believing in this story but that they live the best possible outcomes it can bring them and others. Our problem today is not Christianity but heretical Christianity of certain kinds:

1. Prosperity Gospel
2. Christian Identity
3. Christian Nationalism
4. Messianic Trumpism
5. Dominionism

The list could go on and on. The perversion of Christianity into these false ideologies comes partly from the abandonment of robust theology in America’s seminaries. Good Christian education ought to stamp out bad Christian education.

Well said. Unfortunately many Christians see their religion more as a sports team or even a battlefield than a religion. You can thank the “moral majority” for much of that.