Numbers...

[Imwashingmypirate]

voila, next thing you know I'm going through that lifestyle of I can't wait until high-school and then I'll need a career and I'll need to make some money and so I'll be happy when I get my first car. Or I'll be happy when I get through high school and am an adult and can do what I want. Or perhaps after I get my degree and land my dream job. Or maybe when I meet that special someone and we get married and then I'll have meaning, etc.

Boy, were you mistaken. Let me help you out.

“Everything is meaningless, only words have meaning because they point to something other than themselves. The word water is not drinkable but it points to the drinkable reality.” - AW

Unless that "special someone" happened to be a word, then no dice.

in this process of growing up in our Western society let's say and when we view the world through this lense we can miss certain aspects of reality that are real but we just aren't looking at them or can't seem them because we don't have the correct instrument.

It doesn't matter what kind of instrument you have because the world outside is something other than words. Let me help you out:

“Everything is meaningless, only words have meaning because they point to something other than themselves. The word water is not drinkable but it points to the drinkable reality.” - AW

Even numbers are meaningless, because they aren't words, duh, but they don't point to anything in reality. There is no "three" out there in the material world for them to point to.

High Spy is going to find that really offensive.

I don't understand.
Why does something have to be a word to exist? A word is a sound we apply to a thing or idea. The word doesn't exist in the material world it's just a tool we use to be able to communicate a thing that we all associate that word to mean.

It makes me think about how people who are blind and deaf. How to they learn what is what if we can't teach what words mean. How to they visualise colour. They have no idea what the difference between yellow and blue is it is meaningless.

[Valo]

You sound confused.

And BeNotDeceived and HighSpy would say exactly the same thing, Valo. Exactly.

Who gives a crap?

You sound confused too. Were we talking about BND or High Spy?

[Valo]

Boy, were you mistaken. Let me help you out.

“Everything is meaningless, only words have meaning because they point to something other than themselves. The word water is not drinkable but it points to the drinkable reality.” - AW

Unless that "special someone" happened to be a word, then no dice.



It doesn't matter what kind of instrument you have because the world outside is something other than words. Let me help you out:

“Everything is meaningless, only words have meaning because they point to something other than themselves. The word water is not drinkable but it points to the drinkable reality.” - AW

Even numbers are meaningless, because they aren't words, duh, but they don't point to anything in reality. There is no "three" out there in the material world for them to point to.

High Spy is going to find that really offensive.

I don't understand.
Why does something have to be a word to exist? A word is a sound we apply to a thing or idea. The word doesn't exist in the material world it's just a tool we use to be able to communicate a thing that we all associate that word to mean.

It makes me think about how people who are blind and deaf. How to they learn what is what if we can't teach what words mean. How to they visualise colour. They have no idea what the difference between yellow and blue is it is meaningless.

It's hard to get this idea across and as you can tell there is already resistance because it flies in the face of what we have been trained to see.

The idea here is to look at things from a different point of view. Not in a dogmatic, you must believe way, but perhaps there is something we can gain from looking at things this way.

We construct meaning. What purpose is there, really? Nobody actually knows. Lots of people claim to know and you got all sorts of religions and cults and everything telling us this is what life is about. But they are all humans saying that. How do they know? They don't? Nobody has ever, ever, proved anything about the afterlife, ever. It's all faith it's all speculative. Doesn't mean it isn't real just means nobody really knows no matter how many Jesus experiences you have had or visions etc.

So some humility is required. A recognition that we really don't know, not really.

But what is anything, really? We really don't know.

Perhaps things are not as they seem.

If we explore the idea behind the barges representing space craft, what can we get from that?

[Valo]

I don't understand.
Why does something have to be a word to exist? A word is a sound we apply to a thing or idea. The word doesn't exist in the material world it's just a tool we use to be able to communicate a thing that we all associate that word to mean.

It makes me think about how people who are blind and deaf. How to they learn what is what if we can't teach what words mean. How to they visualise colour. They have no idea what the difference between yellow and blue is it is meaningless.

It's hard to get this idea across and as you can tell there is already resistance because it flies in the face of what we have been trained to see.

The idea here is to look at things from a different point of view. Not in a dogmatic, you must believe way, but perhaps there is something we can gain from looking at things this way.

We construct meaning. What purpose is there, really? Nobody actually knows. Lots of people claim to know and you got all sorts of religions and cults and everything telling us this is what life is about. But they are all humans saying that. How do they know? They don't? Nobody has ever, ever, proved anything about the afterlife, ever. It's all faith it's all speculative. Doesn't mean it isn't real just means nobody really knows no matter how many Jesus experiences you have had or visions etc.

So some humility is required. A recognition that we really don't know, not really.

But what is anything, really? We really don't know.

Perhaps things are not as they seem.

For instance, if we explore the idea behind the barges representing space craft, what can we get from that?

[Gadianton]

I don't understand.
Why does something have to be a word to exist?

You'll have to ask Valo. (although that's not the claim)

But to bring you up to speed on the thread you're participating in.

Valo declared, "Scriptures do say everything denotes there is a God."

Steuss pointed out that we have evolved to see patterns.

Valo declared this a non-argument, that it didn't mean anything. Presumably, Valo is putting Steuss in the textual mirror: Steuss says that everything doesn't point to God (Valo's interpretation), and so Valo is getting even by saying Steuss's words are meaningless because everything is meaningless.

Valo then provided the Allan Watts quote, which strangely, doesn't contradict Steuss because Steuss's post uses words. It's also uncertain if Watts' point intended to extend beyond semantics. If not, then Valo has non only shot their own foot as the quote support Steuss, since Steuss's post is made of words, but probably is equivocating two definitions of the word "meaning" -- semantic meaning vs. life fulfillment etc.

Like Marcus and others, I'm merely holding Valo to Valo's own standard.

[High Spy]

And BeNotDeceived and HighSpy would say exactly the same thing, Valo. Exactly.

Who gives a crap?

You sound confused too. Were we talking about BND or High Spy?

For the record: Spy is BND on LDS-FF and slogbog, but not DM.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=158170&p=2852882&hi ... H#p2852882 will highlight three words that the study of will increase understanding.

Zero is an excellent concept expressed as a number and/or word.

(BND = B0ND - 0) may form a TTP (n-Tuple Type Pattern) where the presence of 0 is the constraint and the equal sign is the delimiter.

TTPs are a unique way of looking at things.

[Valo]

I don't understand.
Why does something have to be a word to exist?

You'll have to ask Valo. (although that's not the claim)

But to bring you up to speed on the thread you're participating in.

Valo declared, "Scriptures do say everything denotes there is a God."

Steuss pointed out that we have evolved to see patterns.

Valo declared this a non-argument, that it didn't mean anything. Presumably, Valo is putting Steuss in the textual mirror: Steuss says that everything doesn't point to God (Valo's interpretation), and so Valo is getting even by saying Steuss's words are meaningless because everything is meaningless.

Valo then provided the Allan Watts quote, which strangely, doesn't contradict Steuss because Steuss's post uses words. It's also uncertain if Watts' point intended to extend beyond semantics. If not, then Valo has non only shot their own foot as the quote support Steuss, since Steuss's post is made of words, but probably is equivocating two definitions of the word "meaning" -- semantic meaning vs. life fulfillment etc.

Like Marcus and others, I'm merely holding Valo to Valo's own standard.

You are just making stuff up.

Let me know when you're ready...

[Marcus]

... Were we talking about BND or High Spy?

For the record: Spy is BND on LDS-FF and slogbog, but not DM.

And also on Mormon dialog, as you've stated here. But you're not the benotdeceived who posts here? That's confusing. Are you sure? Are you Valo? And yes, it matters. Read the rules.

[Imwashingmypirate]

And BeNotDeceived and HighSpy would say exactly the same thing, Valo. Exactly.

Who gives a crap?

You sound confused too. Were we talking about BND or High Spy?

I think the implication might be that you might be a sock puppet. You sound different to high spy. I thought BND was high spy though. Not sure.

[Imwashingmypirate]

I don't understand.
Why does something have to be a word to exist? A word is a sound we apply to a thing or idea. The word doesn't exist in the material world it's just a tool we use to be able to communicate a thing that we all associate that word to mean.

It makes me think about how people who are blind and deaf. How to they learn what is what if we can't teach what words mean. How to they visualise colour. They have no idea what the difference between yellow and blue is it is meaningless.

It's hard to get this idea across and as you can tell there is already resistance because it flies in the face of what we have been trained to see.

The idea here is to look at things from a different point of view. Not in a dogmatic, you must believe way, but perhaps there is something we can gain from looking at things this way.

We construct meaning. What purpose is there, really? Nobody actually knows. Lots of people claim to know and you got all sorts of religions and cults and everything telling us this is what life is about. But they are all humans saying that. How do they know? They don't? Nobody has ever, ever, proved anything about the afterlife, ever. It's all faith it's all speculative. Doesn't mean it isn't real just means nobody really knows no matter how many Jesus experiences you have had or visions etc.

So some humility is required. A recognition that we really don't know, not really.

But what is anything, really? We really don't know.

Perhaps things are not as they seem.

If we explore the idea behind the barges representing space craft, what can we get from that?

Well yes. I see what you are saying. But that's why we discuss it. Thought experiments. We will never know for sure. That doesn't mean everything is meaningless in either definition. It would be very easy to create a meaningless existence but to me, what would be the point? I do think there are signs of a higher existence. There are so many beautiful and amazing things in our experiences. You could pick anything and find amazement in how it works and how so many things exist because of other things. Like we keep the bacteria in us alive but they also help us. Do you think the bacteria have any idea of our existence?