Numbers...

[Valo]

I already started by acknowledging that I will assume the same.

I mean what are the capacities inherent in all humans? We all have a darkside. Many, maybe most, deny it, but it's there. Anger, frustration, impatient, bickering, bad mouthing, being deceptive, we all carry that capacity.

It's important to acknowledge it and recognize your own particular dark pulls. Meaning some struggle with superficial ego driven anger and allow that anger to spill over in to violence towards others.

Jordan Peterson really turned me on to this idea several years ago when he talked about how he studied the problem of evil and how he tried to see if he was capable of doing such things as let's say those in the Nazi party, and his conclusion was that, yes, it's arrogance to assume it was particularly evil people who committed the atrocities.

How about you? Do you acknowledge your darkside?

If your reference to capacity to cause great harm was simply a reference to the types of harm ordinary humans are capable of, that answers my question. Being an ordinary human myself, I don't see myself as exempt from having what you refer to as a "dark side." I'm not sure that "arrogance" is the word I'd use, but I agree with Peterson that it's a mistake to think of oneself as being immune from the circumstances that lead humans to commit atrocities.

Thanks for answering my questions. I may have more.

That's good to recognize that in ourselves. Thanks for your answer and, you're welcome.

Depression is also a part of the darkside. I think most people don't think of it like that but it is as well, an expression of the darkside.

The darkside also includes death, fear of death, pain, suffering, etc.

It's important we are honest about our weaknesses our flaws and the parts of us we might want to try and hide from others.

From the 12 Step Program:

"Why Honesty is Important

Honesty is critical in recovery because it helps individuals confront their flaws and weaknesses. It allows them to take responsibility for their actions and acknowledge their mistakes. Honesty also helps individuals build trust with others, which is essential in the recovery process. When individuals are honest with themselves and others, they can work together to overcome their struggles and achieve a more fulfilling life.

How Honesty Works in the 12 Steps

The principle of honesty is evident in every step of the 12-step program. In Step 1, individuals are encouraged to admit powerlessness and honesty about their situation. In Step 4, they make a searching and fearless moral inventory of themselves, which requires honesty about their thoughts, feelings, and actions. In Step 5, they admit the exact nature of their wrongs, which is a crucial aspect of honesty.

Benefits of Honesty in Recovery

The benefits of honesty in recovery are numerous. It helps individuals:

Develop a sense of accountability and responsibility
Build trust with others
Confront their flaws and weaknesses
Take responsibility for their actions
Achieve a more fulfilling life
Conclusion

Honesty is a critical principle in the 12-step program, and it’s essential for a healthy recovery. It helps individuals confront their flaws and weaknesses, build trust with others, and take responsibility for their actions. By embracing honesty, individuals can achieve a more fulfilling life and overcome their struggles with addiction."

[Gadianton]

I mean what are the capacities inherent in all humans? We all have a darkside. Many, maybe most, deny it, but it's there. Anger, frustration, impatient, bickering, bad mouthing, being deceptive, we all carry that capacity.

It's important to acknowledge it and recognize your own particular dark pulls. Meaning some struggle with superficial ego driven anger and allow that anger to spill over in to violence towards others.

Sure. "Great" is relative. I'd follow up Res's question with these:

1) do you have the capacity to cause greater destruction than the Davidic Servant?
2) do you have the capacity to cause greater destruction than Vladimir Putin?
3) do you have the capacity to cause greater destruction than Gog of Magog?

As a token of good faith, I will answer these questions myself also.

1) I don't know.
2) no.
3) no.

[Imwashingmypirate]

High spy, what are your thoughts on what valo is sharing?

[Res Ipsa]

If your reference to capacity to cause great harm was simply a reference to the types of harm ordinary humans are capable of, that answers my question. Being an ordinary human myself, I don't see myself as exempt from having what you refer to as a "dark side." I'm not sure that "arrogance" is the word I'd use, but I agree with Peterson that it's a mistake to think of oneself as being immune from the circumstances that lead humans to commit atrocities.

Thanks for answering my questions. I may have more.

That's good to recognize that in ourselves. Thanks for your answer and, you're welcome.

Depression is also a part of the darkside. I think most people don't think of it like that but it is as well, an expression of the darkside.

The darkside also includes death, fear of death, pain, suffering, etc.

It's important we are honest about our weaknesses our flaws and the parts of us we might want to try and hide from others.

From the 12 Step Program:

"Why Honesty is Important

Honesty is critical in recovery because it helps individuals confront their flaws and weaknesses. It allows them to take responsibility for their actions and acknowledge their mistakes. Honesty also helps individuals build trust with others, which is essential in the recovery process. When individuals are honest with themselves and others, they can work together to overcome their struggles and achieve a more fulfilling life.

How Honesty Works in the 12 Steps

The principle of honesty is evident in every step of the 12-step program. In Step 1, individuals are encouraged to admit powerlessness and honesty about their situation. In Step 4, they make a searching and fearless moral inventory of themselves, which requires honesty about their thoughts, feelings, and actions. In Step 5, they admit the exact nature of their wrongs, which is a crucial aspect of honesty.

Benefits of Honesty in Recovery

The benefits of honesty in recovery are numerous. It helps individuals:

Develop a sense of accountability and responsibility
Build trust with others
Confront their flaws and weaknesses
Take responsibility for their actions
Achieve a more fulfilling life
Conclusion

Honesty is a critical principle in the 12-step program, and it’s essential for a healthy recovery. It helps individuals confront their flaws and weaknesses, build trust with others, and take responsibility for their actions. By embracing honesty, individuals can achieve a more fulfilling life and overcome their struggles with addiction."

I put "dark side" in quotes upthread because I don't find the dark side/light side dichotomy a helpful way to talk about human personality. I certainly would not put "depression" in the same category as lying or interpersonal violence.

[Valo]

That's good to recognize that in ourselves. Thanks for your answer and, you're welcome.

Depression is also a part of the darkside. I think most people don't think of it like that but it is as well, an expression of the darkside.

The darkside also includes death, fear of death, pain, suffering, etc.

It's important we are honest about our weaknesses our flaws and the parts of us we might want to try and hide from others.

From the 12 Step Program:

"Why Honesty is Important

Honesty is critical in recovery because it helps individuals confront their flaws and weaknesses. It allows them to take responsibility for their actions and acknowledge their mistakes. Honesty also helps individuals build trust with others, which is essential in the recovery process. When individuals are honest with themselves and others, they can work together to overcome their struggles and achieve a more fulfilling life.

How Honesty Works in the 12 Steps

The principle of honesty is evident in every step of the 12-step program. In Step 1, individuals are encouraged to admit powerlessness and honesty about their situation. In Step 4, they make a searching and fearless moral inventory of themselves, which requires honesty about their thoughts, feelings, and actions. In Step 5, they admit the exact nature of their wrongs, which is a crucial aspect of honesty.

Benefits of Honesty in Recovery

The benefits of honesty in recovery are numerous. It helps individuals:

Develop a sense of accountability and responsibility
Build trust with others
Confront their flaws and weaknesses
Take responsibility for their actions
Achieve a more fulfilling life
Conclusion

Honesty is a critical principle in the 12-step program, and it’s essential for a healthy recovery. It helps individuals confront their flaws and weaknesses, build trust with others, and take responsibility for their actions. By embracing honesty, individuals can achieve a more fulfilling life and overcome their struggles with addiction."

I put "dark side" in quotes upthread because I don't find the dark side/light side dichotomy a helpful way to talk about human personality. I certainly would not put "depression" in the same category as lying or interpersonal violence.

I agree it's a broad umbrella. It's kinda like, Hell has many levels but it's all Hell!

Essentially, at a fundamental level, everything exists by killing something else. Or there would not be life without death. Or, as far as we can observe everything living comes from something dead.

I think it is helpful to see or look at the world as relative. Usually this idea invokes in people the notion that anything goes, but, really it's just that existence depends on relationship. "Existence is a function of relationship".

We need death as much as we need life. Life/Death are the same. Light/Dark are essentially one. You cannot have the one without the other. We need gaps as much as we need fillers.

If we take sound for example. If there was not a relationship between sound and silence or a period where there is no sound, we would hear nothing. It's the relationship between something happening and not happening that makes it a sound that makes it exist.

I'm saying it's useful helpful to look at the world this way and I think at a fundamental level, that everything is relative, is an observable reality.

Here is a lecture from Carl Jung read by Alan Watts. I have found it helpful and is related to this idea of a darkside and "interdependencies"

The Wolf by Carl Jung

And if you are in to music...

The Wolf Akira the Don

[Imwashingmypirate]

Interesting.

Valo, does God have a dark side?

[Valo]

Interesting.

Valo, does God have a dark side?

Yes but I have gaps in my knowledge on this at a certain point. However, I believe it is true for at least this creation.

Here is an idea that can help explain the answer.

Atman is Brahman...

The self, is the universal self.

In certain parts of India when someone announces they are "God" nobody makes a big deal out of it. They don't demand this person who says they are God to show them some mighty miracle. In fact some might even congratulate them for finally figuring it out.

In Hindu idea of the Universe, all living beings are a manifestation of God. One way to think of it is that each one of us is really just a probe in to the unknown, the darkness. We are "patterns on the waves". We are, each of us, a manifestation of nature. We are a probe through which God looks out.

The Hindu would say it is God playing hide and seek with himself.

But there appears to exist entities who are the ungodly. Meaning, they do not have any portion of God's light. I think this is beyond darkness and therefore beyond light and it is a realm I can't yet imagine and so I haven't found a way to incorporate it yet...however, despite this gap, I find it highly valuable to consider these ideas and it seems like it's true.

The Hindu idea of avatars is a true idea. Gods or those from above do indwell mortal frames. There are beings who are immortal and who have come down to assist with the work of the Father.

Jesus was indwelt by the Father. But historical Jesus was a human who did human things. What constitutes sin is not obeying the Christ Seed given to us. God accepts mortality totally and is okay with the darkside and when He in habits a mortal frame, He will be subject to and have a dark side by virtue of being in a symbiotic relationship with the human person they are indwelling.

[Imwashingmypirate]

Interesting.

Valo, does God have a dark side?

Yes but I have gaps in my knowledge on this at a certain point. However, I believe it is true for at least this creation.

Here is an idea that can help explain the answer.

Atman is Brahman...

The self, is the universal self.

In certain parts of India when someone announces they are "God" nobody makes a big deal out of it. They don't demand this person who says they are God to show them some mighty miracle. In fact some might even congratulate them for finally figuring it out.

In Hindu idea of the Universe, all living beings are a manifestation of God. One way to think of it is that each one of us is really just a probe in to the unknown, the darkness. We are "patterns on the waves". We are, each of us, a manifestation of nature. We are a probe through which God looks out.

The Hindu would say it is God playing hide and seek with himself.

But there appears to exist entities who are the ungodly. Meaning, they do not have any portion of God's light. I think this is beyond darkness and therefore beyond light and it is a realm I can't yet imagine and so I haven't found a way to incorporate it yet...however, despite this gap, I find it highly valuable to consider these ideas and it seems like it's true.

The Hindu idea of avatars is a true idea. Gods or those from above do indwell mortal frames. There are beings who are immortal and who have come down to assist with the work of the Father.

Jesus was indwelt by the Father. But historical Jesus was a human who did human things. What constitutes sin is not obeying the Christ Seed given to us. God accepts mortality totally and is okay with the darkside and when He in habits a mortal frame, He will be subject to and have a dark side by virtue of being in a symbiotic relationship with the human person they are indwelling.

I see.

This varies quite differently to Mormonism. Are you able to balance all of this and it still feels ok? I am capable of believing in conflicting ideas because I know that the fullness or everything is far beyond the picture we see and the comprehension we have. We see contradictions in quantum physics that we are comfortable accepting because we know that it is touching into a realm we can't fully reach and so don't fully expect to understand. And this is ok. I've never come across anyone else that is able to happily contradict themselves the way I feel I do. Curious how it works in your mind.

I think, as Christians we are taught that God is the light, the goodness and in him cannot reside any darkness. God and Christ are taught to be pure. But if we take a more pantheist approach then yes, you can say God is everywhere and in everything literally. They do say omnipotent, the alpha and omega, then that would imply God resides in the darkness too. If God resides in us imperfect beings then that would make sense. How does the devil and Hell fit into that? It changes the entire dynamic. Unless I've misinterpreted.

Not necessarily agreeing. Just discussing. I don't think God is choosing avatars. If you were an avatar then there would be no doubt. You'd know for a surety and you'd know who you are. Although I must admit it does sound like you are sure of yourself.

[Gadianton]

The Hindu idea of avatars is a true idea. Gods or those from above do indwell mortal frames. There are beings who are immortal and who have come down to assist with the work of the Father.

Are you one of these immortal beings? How about the DS?

[Valo]

Yes but I have gaps in my knowledge on this at a certain point. However, I believe it is true for at least this creation.

Here is an idea that can help explain the answer.

Atman is Brahman...

The self, is the universal self.

In certain parts of India when someone announces they are "God" nobody makes a big deal out of it. They don't demand this person who says they are God to show them some mighty miracle. In fact some might even congratulate them for finally figuring it out.

In Hindu idea of the Universe, all living beings are a manifestation of God. One way to think of it is that each one of us is really just a probe in to the unknown, the darkness. We are "patterns on the waves". We are, each of us, a manifestation of nature. We are a probe through which God looks out.

The Hindu would say it is God playing hide and seek with himself.

But there appears to exist entities who are the ungodly. Meaning, they do not have any portion of God's light. I think this is beyond darkness and therefore beyond light and it is a realm I can't yet imagine and so I haven't found a way to incorporate it yet...however, despite this gap, I find it highly valuable to consider these ideas and it seems like it's true.

The Hindu idea of avatars is a true idea. Gods or those from above do indwell mortal frames. There are beings who are immortal and who have come down to assist with the work of the Father.

Jesus was indwelt by the Father. But historical Jesus was a human who did human things. What constitutes sin is not obeying the Christ Seed given to us. God accepts mortality totally and is okay with the darkside and when He in habits a mortal frame, He will be subject to and have a dark side by virtue of being in a symbiotic relationship with the human person they are indwelling.

I see.

This varies quite differently to Mormonism. Are you able to balance all of this and it still feels ok? I am capable of believing in conflicting ideas because I know that the fullness or everything is far beyond the picture we see and the comprehension we have. We see contradictions in quantum physics that we are comfortable accepting because we know that it is touching into a realm we can't fully reach and so don't fully expect to understand. And this is ok. I've never come across anyone else that is able to happily contradict themselves the way I feel I do. Curious how it works in your mind.

I think, as Christians we are taught that God is the light, the goodness and in him cannot reside any darkness. God and Christ are taught to be pure. But if we take a more pantheist approach then yes, you can say God is everywhere and in everything literally. They do say omnipotent, the alpha and omega, then that would imply God resides in the darkness too. If God resides in us imperfect beings then that would make sense. How does the devil and Hell fit into that? It changes the entire dynamic. Unless I've misinterpreted.

Not necessarily agreeing. Just discussing. I don't think God is choosing avatars. If you were an avatar then there would be no doubt. You'd know for a surety and you'd know who you are. Although I must admit it does sound like you are sure of yourself.

First of all, I agree with you on that. I am aware and mindful of the fact that I am only capable of taking in a very narrow bandwidth of data or information. I am aware we are built to focus on certain things and ignore most everything else. So the things I do not know is far greater than what I know. And I believe what I do not know is far more important than what I do know.

Please be careful to make sure you aren't reading too much in to what I am saying.

I am not trying to make Mormonism work. I'm not trying to make Hinduism work. I'm trying to describe basically the same idea but in different ways.

I am not making a claim here. I am describing an idea that I think is true. I am not claiming anything about myself with the exception that, I, like others, "...am an aperture through which the whole Cosmos looks out."

I'm trying to describe an idea that is hard to get across.

As far as Avatars, think of it this way. If you were immortal, omnipotent, all of that, what would you do? "I wonder, I wonder, what would you do, if you had the power to dream any dream you wanted to?"

So imagine if you were God and could do anything you wanted? What if you decided to go on an adventure to find out how much you could accomplish without your powers? What if I forgot who I was? Could I remember my identity if I got lost?

Or perhaps the indwelling Father knows but it is man, the human who needs to accept their identity?