Saints Volume 4 is out.

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I Have Questions
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Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by I Have Questions »

The fourth and final volume of Saints: The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days was published today. This newest book, Sounded in Every Ear, tells the story of the Latter-day Saints from 1955 to 2020, bringing the history up nearly to the present day. It discusses an era in which conversion rates exploded in South America, the Pacific islands, eastern Asia, and Africa. The 1978 revelation that ended the priesthood and temple ban was an important event enabling that growth. Temple construction to support membership across the world became a big deal, with the number of temples jumping from 9 functioning temples in 3 countries in 1955 to 197 dedicated temples in scores of countries today.

As with previous entries in the series, Saints 4 has a lot of different goals, sources, and subjects to juggle. As an institutional history, it needs to inspire faithfulness and belief in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

First, this includes a focus on Jesus Christ and the impact involvement in the Church has on the lives of those who embrace it as well as sustaining the positions the Church takes on hot-button social issues. It also has to work to cultivate a positive image of the Church for any non-members who happen to read the books.

Second, it is a historical work that has positioned itself as a true account of the history of the Church, with painstaking efforts to research and present that history accurately. On this account, it needs to hold up under the scrutiny of the academic fields of history and religious studies.

Third, it tries to present that historical information in an engaging, narrative format that is appealing to people across many different education levels.
Fourth, this volume is about history that people who are alive and remember experiencing the events described within (historians aren’t usually writing about subjects that can talk back at them).

Those goals don’t always fit nicely together and create some tensions in what they were aiming to achieve. But Saints 4 does a good job of balancing and compromising between them while achieving the core of each of the goals.
https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.p ... -a-review/

I’m particularly interested in how this volume handles the Priesthood/Temple Ban, and also the veracity of its claim of being historically accurate.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by Kishkumen »

Very cool! It is the period I am least well informed on, even though I lived through some of it.
drumdude
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by drumdude »

I’ve been wanting to read these, if anyone knows of a pdf somewhere send me a PM!
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Morley
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by Morley »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:24 pm
I’ve been wanting to read these, if anyone knows of a pdf somewhere send me a PM!

1. Go to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

2. Select the three dots at the top right part of the page

3. Then select 'Download'.
drumdude
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by drumdude »

Morley wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:09 pm
drumdude wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:24 pm
I’ve been wanting to read these, if anyone knows of a pdf somewhere send me a PM!

1. Go to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

2. Select the three dots at the top right part of the page

3. Then select 'Download'.
Thank you!

I’ll have to try on desktop since I don’t see the download on mobile. Does it require an LDS login?
Fence Sitter
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by Fence Sitter »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:24 pm
I’ve been wanting to read these, if anyone knows of a pdf somewhere send me a PM!
Vol's 1 - 3 are available on Kindle for free, and not worth it at that price.

These are written as if their audience is early teens and are very hagiographical. If you are into Mormon history, they might be worth a look, but they won't tell you much you didn't already know, and they tend to gloss over or ignore anything problematic.

I don't recommend them at all for serious students of Mormon history.
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Tom
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by Tom »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:19 pm
Morley wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:09 pm
1. Go to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

2. Select the three dots at the top right part of the page

3. Then select 'Download'.
Thank you!

I’ll have to try on desktop since I don’t see the download on mobile. Does it require an LDS login?
No. Can you access this link:

https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/ ... 5_2015.pdf
“But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.” Heber C. Kimball, 8 Nov. 1857
I Have Questions
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by I Have Questions »

Spoiler Alert: in the matter of ending the ban on black people holding the priesthood and attending the temple, the heroes of the hour are presented as Kimball and all the other white apostles at the time. No apology. No acknowledgment of the ban being a mistake, nor a doctrine, nor a mandate from God, the Priesthood & Temple ban is described simply as a “practice”. No mention of the 1949 letter whatsoever. No mention of when and how and why it started. Mark E Peterson doesn’t get a mention.
In the early months of 1978, President Spencer W. Kimball was so concerned about the Church’s priesthood and temple restriction that he often struggled to sleep. The public outcry against the restriction had largely quieted, but he continued to think about the countless worthy Saints and other good people it affected. His recent trip to Brazil had been a reminder of the many challenges it posed for Saints around the world.

All his life, President Kimball had upheld the Church’s practice of withholding the priesthood from people of Black African descent, and he was ready to spend the rest of his life upholding that practice.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

Oh poor old Kimball losing sleep…boo hoo. What about the countless numbers of black people who suffered the ignominy of being “less than” for all those generations? No, the biggest tragedy is Kimball’s sleep patterns.

The Church really cannot be trusted to tell its history in an open and balanced way. Saints 4 is Disneyesque propaganda, not a faithful recounting of history.
Last edited by I Have Questions on Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by Philo Sofee »

Fence Sitter wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:20 pm
drumdude wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:24 pm
I’ve been wanting to read these, if anyone knows of a pdf somewhere send me a PM!
Vol's 1 - 3 are available on Kindle for free, and not worth it at that price.

These are written as if their audience is early teens and are very hagiographical. If you are into Mormon history, they might be worth a look, but they won't tell you much you didn't already know, and they tend to gloss over or ignore anything problematic

I don't recommend them at all for serious students of Mormon history.
Ditto.
drumdude
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Re: Saints Volume 4 is out.

Post by drumdude »

The public outcry against the restriction had largely quieted, but he continued to think about the countless worthy Saints and other good people it affected.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

This sentence really stands out as a particularly egregious reframing of the history to make the prophet look like he was acting on revelation instead of reacting to the increasing pressure to end an overtly racist policy.

And I’ve seen DCP tout these books as reliable history.
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