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Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:34 am
by Moksha
3 Nephi tells us that Jesus caused:
3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.
4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.
5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.
6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the...
While this sounds antithetical to the Prince of Peace, could this homicidal behavior be a reaction to being imprisoned in a burial tomb, being sent to hell for three days, or was it just Joseph enacting some wild-haired psychopathic drama?
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:03 pm
by Physics Guy
It’s a similar genre to Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:49 pm
by Shulem
Moksha wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:34 am
3 Nephi tells us that Jesus caused:
3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.
4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.
5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.
6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the...
While this sounds antithetical to the Prince of Peace, could this homicidal behavior be a reaction to being imprisoned in a burial tomb, being sent to hell for three days, or was it just Joseph enacting some wild-haired psychopathic drama?
No, it's not that, Moksha. It was all about Joseph Smith playing the role of
Jesus God and experiencing what he thought it was like to be God. It was Joseph Smith who imagined those things just as he did when he fantasized and experienced what it was like to cut off the head of Laban. There really was a dark side to Joseph Smith and he wanted to know what it was like to understand the opposites -- life & death, blessing & cursing, save & destroy, etc.
You want me to crack the 3 Nephi nut? But I'm not going to do that as yet, if at all. But I will say that Joseph Smith wanted to understand all aspects of what it meant to be a man and to be God. The Book of Mormon was his imagination based on a desire to understand a perspective in which he was very curious.
Anyway, have a nice day!
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 8:27 pm
by Doctor Steuss
It was basically a Rumspringa for Jehovah. One last romp in the Old Testament hay to make sure He was ready to commit to His new calling and the higher law.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:16 pm
by Physics Guy
Doctor Steuss wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 8:27 pm
It was basically a Rumspringa for Jehovah. One last romp in the Old Testament hay to make sure He was ready to commit to His new calling and the higher law.
From what I understand of Mormon doctrine, that's an impressively consistent interpretation. Huh.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 6:57 pm
by huckelberry
I thought all the violence was a reflection of what reads in Revelation. Most people see God as causing all sorts of hell before he comes back. I suppose it is part of the excitement of the last days and the Book of Mormon provides a preview.
I do not read Revelation that way. I see imaginary imagery depicting in repeating cycles the violence that people have been inflicting on themselves over the past 2000 years. This pattern has a good likelihood to continue. I can hear Bart Ehrman and others complaining that this interpretation does not fit scripture study seeking to clarify what the original author intended. It is fairly clear(or just plain clear) that the author thought was that God was shortly to give hell to the Roman empire and its imperial powers.It didn't happen so people push the expectation along into future time.
Of course my interpretation does not fit well the idea of God's inerrant dictation of the contents. I am looking and seeing the author looking at patterns that he does not completely understand.Meaning can grow in the imagery as unfolding of events give substance to what started as giving hope and determination in a hostile
environment.
Those plagues and horrors in Revelation I see as WWI or WWII and many such events.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:05 pm
by dantana
There is a similar topic going on at the MAD board just now. My ten cent take doesn't seem to have the tilted the tomatometer in any direction.
To me, God and his mass causality events are another one of those fuzzy areas that are hard to actually conceptualize. Similar to spirit world prison, heaven, etc.
The great flood, Sodom, Book of Mormon events. How could that many people be that bad to where they all need killing. I look out at the world I'm in now and just don't see humans as being that inherently rotten as to what has been described in the holy books. In fact, just the opposite. People are not inherently bad at heart. That's why society exists now, because humans evolved to not be self only focused. There have been Neanderthal remains found from 100 K years ago with bone breaks that had been healed because the village took care of the individual.
I guess what it's going to come down to then is gods definition of wicked and evil. If simply not believing in him gets you on the list then, welcome to Calvinball. My seminary teacher liked to point out at least once a week that those who don't pay their tithing will be burned like the stubble in the great mass causality event sure to happen any day now.
I like to think of myself as fairly balanced and straightforward in dealing with my fellowman. I don't watch where I'm walking so as to not step on bugs, but don't intentionally step on them either. Apparently though, according to the writings, I'm on the wicked and evil list.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:31 pm
by Rivendale
dantana wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:05 pm
There is a similar topic going on at the MAD board just now. My ten cent take doesn't seem to have the tilted the tomatometer in any direction.
To me, God and his mass causality events are another one of those fuzzy areas that are hard to actually conceptualize. Similar to spirit world prison, heaven, etc.
The great flood, Sodom, Book of Mormon events. How could that many people be that bad to where they all need killing. I look out at the world I'm in now and just don't see humans as being that inherently rotten as to what has been described in the holy books. In fact, just the opposite. People are not inherently bad at heart. That's why society exists now, because humans evolved to not be self only focused. There have been Neanderthal remains found from 100 K years ago with bone breaks that had been healed because the village took care of the individual.
I guess what it's going to come down to then is gods definition of wicked and evil. If simply not believing in him gets you on the list then, welcome to Calvinball. My seminary teacher liked to point out at least once a week that those who don't pay their tithing will be burned like the stubble in the great mass causality event sure to happen any day now.
I like to think of myself as fairly balanced and straightforward in dealing with my fellowman. I don't watch where I'm walking so as to not step on bugs, but don't intentionally step on them either. Apparently though, according to the writings, I'm on the wicked and evil list.
Unbelievable. This person rationalized killing kids.
So there is a ritual context that casts all of this as the destruction preceding a new creation. "Old things are done away. All things are become new."
And beyond this, consider, would the innocent children have been better off being raised in a society that was ripe for destruction? And where are they now? Are they eternally stuck on those days of destruction, or have they moved on had the Gospel preached to them on a congenial, loving environment? As innocent children, our understanding is that they are saved in the Kingdom of God. That Jesus can and does "wipe all the tears from their eyes."
Hugh Nibley has commented that the real tragedy is not what becomes of people, but what they become. So, in the eternal sense, what have the innocents of that society become by now? And how much, or how little does that matter in considering the situation?
for what it's worth
Kevin Christensen
Canonsburg, PA
This is one of the most despicable explanations I have read involving a hypothetical reason for indiscriminately killing people.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 11:38 pm
by Moksha
dantana wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:05 pm
There is a similar topic going on at the MAD board just now. My ten-cent take doesn't seem to have tilted the tomatometer in any direction.
The posters at MDD take to a wicked Jesus like nothing is out of the ordinary. Shulem might be onto something with the notion that Joseph was exploring the boundaries of human morality, or maybe it is also related to young men's fascination with battles.
I wish he had included unicorns and dinosaurs. A spacecraft landing from Kolob would also have been exciting, and that would have furnished fresh story material for an Interpreter video.
So there is a ritual context that casts all of this as the destruction preceding a new creation. "Old things are done away. All things are become new."
My money is on the Dragonborn to prevent Alduin from ending the world and creating a new Kalpa. Let the Tree of Life continue.
Re: Jesus and Temporary Insanity
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:45 pm
by PseudoPaul
Moksha wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:34 am
3 Nephi tells us that Jesus caused:
3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.
4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.
5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.
6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the...
While this sounds antithetical to the Prince of Peace, could this homicidal behavior be a reaction to being imprisoned in a burial tomb, being sent to hell for three days, or was it just Joseph enacting some wild-haired psychopathic drama?
The Jesus of the gospels is a pacifist, but here Smith seems to be drawing from the Jesus of Revelation, who is portrayed in extremely violent terms.