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Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 2:06 pm
by drumdude
https://youtu.be/zqTcwCdGeRg
Over and over again, DCP has tried to portray science as a dogma equivalent to his dogmatic religious beliefs. He has for years called Gemli a dogmatist for being skeptical of supernatural claims.
McClellan is excellent at cutting to the heart of the issue with this underhanded apologetic tactic.
The nickname “Good Dan” is a reference to Robert Boylan’s name for Dan McClellan when he makes a point he agrees with.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:39 pm
by Rivendale
Great video that summarizes the main talking points. Sophomoric prophylaxis. Great word selection. The witnesses claimed to see angels because Joseph Smith said they would, a great illustration of how preconceived dogma enters the experience. I also like how he described the attempt to justify the existence of angels and demons by claiming mythological materialistic do the same epistemological mistakes by ignoring the unknowns in naturalistic explanations. The difference being there is no data used in the conclusion that the supernatural exists.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:32 pm
by drumdude
Rivendale wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:39 pm
Great video that summarizes the main talking points. Sophomoric prophylaxis. Great word selection. The witnesses claimed to see angels because Joseph Smith said they would, a great illustration of how preconceived dogma enters the experience. I also like how he described the attempt to justify the existence of angels and demons by claiming mythological materialistic do the same epistemological mistakes by ignoring the unknowns in naturalistic explanations. The difference being there is no data used in the conclusion that the supernatural exists.
Dan has a real knack for boiling down complex topics into the essential elements to show the issue with apologetics. I love it, and I love that he’s gaining such a large following.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:05 pm
by sock puppet
Boylan might refer to McClellan as Good Dan. In the linked video, it is clear he was Logical Dan--which DCP clearly is not when it comes to Mormon topics.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 4:39 am
by phaedrus ut
I've moved on from most of my post Mormon study of Mormonism and only come back to these forums to see if anything interesting going on. It makes me happy that McClellan is called the good Dan. I do watch quite a bit of his content and I have no idea if he is still a believer or not but his scholarship is legit.
Phaedrus
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:35 pm
by Rivendale
phaedrus ut wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 4:39 am
I've moved on from most of my post Mormon study of Mormonism and only come back to these forums to see if anything interesting going on. It makes me happy that McClellan is called the good Dan. I do watch quite a bit of his content and I have no idea if he is still a believer or not but his scholarship is legit.
Phaedrus
Dan has kept his personal beliefs private but he still participates in church services and he has said he makes people very uncomfortable in various mettings and isn't shy to correct people that say false things. I find it strange with his knowledge he can continue. David Bokovoy couldn't do it. Brian Hauglid walked back many of his old arguments in favor of the church specifically the Book of Abraham. Most of the top apologetic scholars who stay have been shown to be dishonest. Dan dosen't seem to be like that.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 4:30 pm
by Doctor Steuss
Rivendale wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:35 pm
Dan has kept his personal beliefs private but he still participates in church services and he has said he makes people very uncomfortable in various meetings and isn't shy to correct people that say false things. I find it strange with his knowledge he can continue. David Bokovoy couldn't do it. Brian Hauglid walked back many of his old arguments in favor of the church specifically the Book of Abraham. Most of the top apologetic scholars who stay have been shown to be dishonest. Dan doesn't seem to be like that.
I think there's a chance Dr. Bokovoy would probably still be attending if it weren't for the Church's hostility towards LGBTQ+. His split with the Church wasn't necessarily an intellectual one. It was a moral one.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 5:05 pm
by drumdude
Rivendale wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:35 pm
phaedrus ut wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 4:39 am
I've moved on from most of my post Mormon study of Mormonism and only come back to these forums to see if anything interesting going on. It makes me happy that McClellan is called the good Dan. I do watch quite a bit of his content and I have no idea if he is still a believer or not but his scholarship is legit.
Phaedrus
Dan has kept his personal beliefs private but he still participates in church services and he has said he makes people very uncomfortable in various meetings and isn't shy to correct people that say false things. I find it strange with his knowledge he can continue. David Bokovoy couldn't do it. Brian Hauglid walked back many of his old arguments in favor of the church specifically the Book of Abraham. Most of the top apologetic scholars who stay have been shown to be dishonest. Dan doesn't seem to be like that.
Sounds like it’s time for a court of love to sort him out. Wouldn’t want him missing out on Super VIP heaven for calling a spade a spade.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 6:11 pm
by Rivendale
Doctor Steuss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 4:30 pm
Rivendale wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:35 pm
Dan has kept his personal beliefs private but he still participates in church services and he has said he makes people very uncomfortable in various mettings and isn't shy to correct people that say false things. I find it strange with his knowledge he can continue. David Bokovoy couldn't do it. Brian Hauglid walked back many of his old arguments in favor of the church specifically the Book of Abraham. Most of the top apologetic scholars who stay have been shown to be dishonest. Dan doesn't seem to be like that.
I think there's a chance Dr. Bokovoy would probably still be attending if it weren't for the Church's hostility towards LGBTQ+. His split with the Church wasn't necessarily an intellectual one. It was a moral one.
I could be remembering this wrong but I think during his Mormon stories interview David said he was warned multiple times that his textual criticism studies would kill his testimony and he felt self confident that he could withstand it but then in the end he admitted it did exactly that.
Re: Good Dan demolishes DCP’s favorite apologetic tactic
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 6:13 pm
by Rivendale
drumdude wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 5:05 pm
Rivendale wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 12:35 pm
Dan has kept his personal beliefs private but he still participates in church services and he has said he makes people very uncomfortable in various meetings and isn't shy to correct people that say false things. I find it strange with his knowledge he can continue. David Bokovoy couldn't do it. Brian Hauglid walked back many of his old arguments in favor of the church specifically the Book of Abraham. Most of the top apologetic scholars who stay have been shown to be dishonest. Dan doesn't seem to be like that.
Sounds like it’s time for a court of love to sort him out. Wouldn’t want him missing out on Super VIP heaven for calling a spade a spade.
I think he is careful to only react and not actively engage until someone else makes a claim. But I agree that might not matter.