DiscussMormonism.com

As I'm about to leave Utah, after a too-short visit, I've been wondering about something I experienced.

I'm omitting a lot of details here, for various reasons. You can choose, of course, whether to think that any of my reasons are nefarious. I may be open to answering a few questions, but it's probably obvious that I'm not going to go into a lot more detail.

I'm not looking for church-bashing comments - mostly I'd be interested in knowing if the strangers here should have expected anything other than what happened here.

Location: A large ward near a temple.
Occasion: A small "meeting" - about 20-25 total attendees

Lights, Cameras - Action!

A few people from out of town arrive first, and sit at the right side of the room. This is the first time in two years they have been in this building.

A couple of groups of members, some from a ward in this building, arrive, walk over to the left side, and sit down. The "strangers" look expectantly at each group as they arrive. The newcomers talk amongst themselves. Some of them know the out-of-town people.

The Bishop arrives, and sits at the front of the room. Before and during the meeting he glances occasionally at the strangers.

The meeting proceeds.

As people leave the room, a couple of them nod or say "Hi" to the strangers. The Bishop does not say a word to them.

Before the strangers leave the building, the music director and a couple who are also from out of town chat with them for a couple of minutes.

I’ve seen this as well as much better behavior all within Utah. In one ward I was new to I had to be the extrovert and make new acquaintances, dragging them by the skin of their teeth. In another ward people clamored to meet me. I will admit that people in Utah display Oregon coast levels of coldness.

It’s bad enough that my parents moved us away pretty early in my childhood. It’s not a problem unique to Utah though, even if it is rarer outside of the Mormon Corridor. My parents always went ‘ward shopping’ before they went house shopping within the ‘right’ ward’s boundaries.

It’s incredibly disgraceful that people can’t show some Christlike friendliness and that we had to take these kinds of measures, but oh well, what can we do?

Malkie wrote:A couple of groups of members, some from a ward in this building, arrive, walk over to the left side, and sit down. The "strangers" look expectantly at each group as they arrive. The newcomers talk amongst themselves. Some of them know the out-of-town people.

Classic situation. Utah (the Mormon influenced parts) is outrageously unfriendly to strangers, but it's even rude to non-strangers. It's just rude. The silliest but most telling example I have comes from several years ago. On a road trip to Utah, I stopped at a "Mexican" restaurant in Southern Utah, it's right off the highway. I go in there, and immediately it just feels weird; it's packed, and it's totally white. There's a long line, and the manger/owner is taking his sweet time. I can pick out conversations about missions and churchy things, and there are BYU hats and shirts worn by customers. So it's finally my turn, the owner puts on a smile, "Oh hello!" and it felt off but I just said, "Hi," and almost proceeded with my order when I realize he's talking to the woman behind me. So they chat a few minutes around me, while I'm standing at the counter waiting to order, and when he's finished, he leaves!

A few more minutes pass and somebody else comes from the back who didn't seem to know what they were doing. One thing consistent, is everyone is complaining about the food. I pass on the sauce bar while waiting as it's 80% water. I can't remember for sure, but I think after I finally got my food, I threw it away after a few bites; truly horrible. I imagine that was what the Celestial Kingdom will be like.

It's not the worst rejection I've had at a Mexican restaurant, I was ignored once and had to leave a Mexican restaurant in Escondido, but that was racism. Unfortunately the food was probably decent. I'm pretty sure my Beaver experience (if that's where it was) would have been the same had I been wearing a white shirt and tie. Mormons are the most insular and ignorant of the outside world who have ever lived. Look at how many countries Dan has been to but not able to shake that unfriendly "insiders only are welcomed here" persona.

You were lucky you weren't at the ward my parents went to. You would have felt welcomed to the point you'd want to escape by my dad. He absolutely hated this aspect of Mormonism and was in constant battles local leaders over ward unfriendliness. He didn't have the same problems in the Church outside of Utah.

Pretty sure the only thing Mexican about the El Bambi café is its name. If I remember right, it sells burgers and breakfast.

Thanks for the comments.

We shook the Utah dust off our feet twice in 24 hours! Once by entering Arizona, briefly, and again by entering Colorado.

Likely we won't see Utah again during the 47th administration, which effectively is likely to mean we will never return

Uthans are, by and large, rude…

A set of new surveys put Utah in the top 10 rudest states in the country. The rankings are based on speaking with customer service agents, how outsiders perceive state residents and drivers.

According to the website Zippia.com Utah ranks as the 8th rudest state. The article states, customer service representatives said only four other states swear more over the phone than Utah residents.

3.6% of drivers in the Beehive State are also rude. That compares to only 2.1% in the nicest ranked state, Minnesota.

A poll on the BestLifeOnLine website put Utah as the 6th rudest. With Salt Lake City being the worst city.

https://kslnewsradio.com/utah/utahns-ma ... s/1956615/

You’d think having the largest percentage of LDS in your state population would have a positive impact on politeness. It doesn’t. Wasn’t Monson reputed to be generally rude to underlings if they got things wrong or weren’t sucking up to him sufficiently?

I Have Questions wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 19, 2025 12:53 pm

Uthans are, by and large, rude…

A set of new surveys put Utah in the top 10 rudest states in the country. The rankings are based on speaking with customer service agents, how outsiders perceive state residents and drivers.

According to the website Zippia.com Utah ranks as the 8th rudest state. The article states, customer service representatives said only four other states swear more over the phone than Utah residents.

3.6% of drivers in the Beehive State are also rude. That compares to only 2.1% in the nicest ranked state, Minnesota.

A poll on the BestLifeOnLine website put Utah as the 6th rudest. With Salt Lake City being the worst city.

https://kslnewsradio.com/utah/utahns-ma ... s/1956615/

You’d think having the largest percentage of LDS in your state population would have a positive impact on politeness. It doesn’t. Wasn’t Monson reputed to be generally rude to underlings if they got things wrong or weren’t sucking up to him sufficiently?

I would not think that having a large percentage of LDS would have a positive impact on politeness. Perhaps that's what Mormon leadership would like to assume its program would yield. There are many good people that are Mormon, but the prosperity theology that permeates widely throughout the Mormon population encourages 'every man out for himself', greed and exploitation of others. In looking at Idaho (10th rudest state), Wyoming (16th rudest) and Arizona (21st rudest) along with Utah (6th rudest), all five of these high-percentage Mormon states fall into the worst half of states for rudeness.

Ahhh, yes - I forgot to mention the driving!

I've driven in about 40 US states, about half of the Mexican states, and most Canadian provinces. That's included driving in and around a lot of cities, including NYC, Las Vegas, Washington DC, Montreal (!), Toronto, Boston, SLC, Mexico City.

On this latest trip I was, nonetheless, unpleasantly surprised at the rudeness of some Utah drivers. Up and down I15, and in Utah towns, the drivers rival anything you can find in other highways ad town.

Of course, it's probably the godless communistic non-Mormons to blame.

malkie wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:52 am

Ahhh, yes - I forgot to mention the driving!

I've driven in about 40 US states, about half of the Mexican states, and most Canadian provinces. That's included driving in and around a lot of cities, including NYC, Las Vegas, Washington DC, Montreal (!), Toronto, Boston, SLC, Mexico City.

On this latest trip I was, nonetheless, unpleasantly surprised at the rudeness of some Utah drivers. Up and down I15, and in Utah towns, the drivers rival anything you can find in other highways ad town.

Of course, it's probably the godless communistic non-Mormons to blame.

Not to be disagreeable but I go up and down the I-15 and the I-80 and around through the towns and cities off the freeway and into the neighborhoods quite often. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I've lived here a long time.

Regards,
MG

MG 2.0 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:56 am

malkie wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:52 am

Ahhh, yes - I forgot to mention the driving!

I've driven in about 40 US states, about half of the Mexican states, and most Canadian provinces. That's included driving in and around a lot of cities, including NYC, Las Vegas, Washington DC, Montreal (!), Toronto, Boston, SLC, Mexico City.

On this latest trip I was, nonetheless, unpleasantly surprised at the rudeness of some Utah drivers. Up and down I15, and in Utah towns, the drivers rival anything you can find in other highways ad town.

Of course, it's probably the godless communistic non-Mormons to blame.

Not to be disagreeable but I go up and down the I-15 and the I-80 and around through the towns and cities off the freeway and into the neighborhoods quite often. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I've lived here a long time.

Regards,
MG

Let’s look at facts rather than feelings

But, not only are Utah drivers bad at following the rules of the road, they have been ranked the “ third most confrontational” drivers in America. According to an article by Forbes, Utah drivers reported that 49.5% had been cut off on purpose, 42.5% had their car blocked from merging or changing lane, 54% received a rude or offensive gestures, 61.5% had been honked at with frustration, 64.5% had been tailgated, and 31.5% had been yelled at or insulted by another driver.

This certainly suggests Malkie’s lived experience is not the outlier…

And…

Anyone who has set wheels on I-15 — or any Utah road for that matter — won’t be surprised to hear that Utah placed No. 1 in QuoteWizard’s ranking of the worst drivers in the United States.

Youd have to be driving with your eyes shut not to notice the problem, apparently.

This suggests it’s been a very obvious problem, for a very long time…

A 2016 study ranked Utahns the worst drivers in America, and we’ve been in the bottom 10 every year since. What makes us such bad drivers? It’s not the traffic. A 2017 report placed Utah well below the national average for time spent in traffic congestion.

So, a very obvious problem, for a very long time. Given the overwhelming scale of the problem, and the supporting data above, I’m guessing the only people not noticing the problem would have to be the very worst of the culprits causing the problem.