Did LDS leaders get the vaccine because of preferential treatment?

[Lem]

The few privileged people getting the shot that encourage thousands if not hundreds of thousands of others to do so is saving lives.

Please verify that. Or are you just making an assumption?

[Lem]

But man do people really dig in their heels and get combative when challenged.

Honor, meet the mirror. Omg. I will be laughing for days.

[honorentheos]

But man do people really dig in their heels and get combative when challenged.

Honor, meet the mirror. Omg. I will be laughing for days.

Yeah it's been quite the conversation. Jesus.

[Jersey Girl]

Cinepro,

I’ll answer your questions if you answer mine:

1) Why did you introduce Dehlin as a rhetorical device on this forum?

N/A

2) Would Jesus Christ, in your opinion, ensure others get the stick before He’d get it?

Jesus led by example. Difficult to second guess but based on what I see in scripture, I believe he would be the first to do so, not because his situation would be more critical or that he was more privileged but to alleviate fear and instill confidence in his followers so that they would follow his lead and also take the vaccine.

3) Given that LDS leadership could still get a lot of mileage out of just urging members to queue up and get the vaccine, while literally setting the example of christian impartiality and fairness, how would the result be any different with their flock?

- Doc

I get that people are bugged by these events. That said, I think that urging alone wouldn't be as effective in terms of impact as the image of leaders actually taking the vaccine themselves. Thinking about folks like Fauci, Biden, Schwarzenegger, Willie Nelson, and other public figures whose example is encouraging to others.

I have to cut this short. I'm out the door over here.

[cinepro]

Cinepro,

I’ll answer your questions if you answer mine:

1) Why did you introduce Dehlin as a rhetorical device on this forum?

It seemed an interesting contrast to see how people are judging the situation. Is it worse for Russell M. Nelson to get the vaccine, or John Dehlin? Or is it equally good or bad? If you consider it an unwanted or irrelevant inclusion in the conversation, feel free to ignore it (but since there are a limited number of vaccines, it is directly related).

2) Would Jesus Christ, in your opinion, ensure others get the stick before He’d get it?

I honestly don't know. As I've said, I'm not trying to guess what Jesus would do. I'm trying to guess what will end the pandemic as soon as possible with as few people being hospitalized or dying. I'd like to think that if Jesus weren't going to use his healing powers to help, he would want us to use the vaccines in a way that saves the most people.

But even if there were some way to know for sure what Jesus thinks, if he thought we should extend the pandemic for some reason related to perceived equity or fairness, I would disagree with him.

3) Given that LDS leadership could still get a lot of mileage out of just urging members to queue up and get the vaccine, while literally setting the example of christian impartiality and fairness, how would the result be any different with their flock?

I don't know how Utah Mormons think, or vaccine skeptics think. I can only suspect that having the leaders tell the members to get vaccines while they get their own vaccines would be more impactful than the leaders telling the members to get vaccines but saying they're going to wait even though they're in the high-priority tier. The latter seems like it would raise more red flags than the former.

And again, I do not agree vaccine distribution should be done with impartiality and fairness. The greatest public health will result from it being done with extreme partiality in favor of those who are at most risk or likely to be spreaders (pick a priority), with maximum unfairness towards those who are lower risk or least likely to be spreaders.

It's fine if we disagree on that point. Many people do. Here in California things are a mess because everyone is complaining that whatever policy the state puts out isn't "fair", so then they rejigger the guidelines and create more confusion and delay. The problem is that these different views are slowing down vaccine distribution and therefore causing the pandemic continue longer than it should. (Here's a tip: If you have people throwing out vaccines because they're afraid of giving them to the "wrong" people before they expire, you've got a broken vaccine policy and are focusing on the wrong things.)

[Lem]

Honor, meet the mirror. Omg. I will be laughing for days.

Yeah it's been quite the conversation. Jesus.

Don't I know it. But, a laugh is worth a lot these isolated days. I'm grateful for that. Spouse had covid, I tested negative, but still quarantined myself for two weeks out of an abundance of caution. Just prior to that, an old lady yelled at me -and I mean YELLED- when I offered to help her get her CART, (not her) unstuck from the crosswalk grate. I walked away and left her stuck and struggling, a sitting duck in oncoming traffic, but what else could I do? She made her wishes known and I respected them. It was heart-wrenching.

Anyway, anything that makes me smile these lonely days is appreciated.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Cinepro,

1) Let me suggest that you might believe John Dehlin is more highly regarded here than is actually the case. I think presenting him as a sort of ex-Mo celebrity here is not only way off the mark for this forum, but really failed as a whatabout or gotcha moment. I know I couldn’t care less about him, his career, or whether or not he’s influential because I think he’s a smarmy goober.

2) So, you believe the LDS leadership have shortened the pandemic by getting stuck first, but you can’t say for sure WWJD. Ok. Just kind of weird that you’re sure about one unprovable thing and not the other.

3) You misunderstood what I said. How would it be materially different if the leaders publicized themselves filling out the forms online, with, say, counsel to do the same, telling their flock that they literally are getting vaccinated when its their turn versus jumping the queue, and urging them to do the same and to get the jab?

If you’re a conspiratard you’re going to believe they got a vitamin shot, anyway.

- Doc

[cinepro]

1) Let me suggest that you might believe John Dehlin is more highly regarded here than is actually the case. I think presenting him as a sort of ex-Mo celebrity here is not only way off the mark for this forum, but really failed as a whatabout or gotcha moment. I know I couldn’t care less about him, his career, or whether or not he’s influential because I think he’s a smarmy goober.

That's fine. Let that be reflected in your comments (or lack thereof) regarding the comparison.

[2) So, you believe the LDS leadership have shortened the pandemic by getting stuck first, but you can’t say for sure WWJD. Ok. Just kind of weird that you’re sure about one unprovable thing and not the other.

I believe the LDS leadership have shortened the pandemic (and reduced the potential rate of hospitalization and loss of life) based on math, statistics, and epidemiology (and, to the degree that others follow their example and get vaccinated, the psychology of religious believers). Granted, it's a swing of 14 vaccinations among tens of millions of shots, among hundreds of millions of people. So it's a tiny effect. But that's what we're discussing, and what some people are getting upset over. So here we are.

If you see that as being similar to not knowing what a heavily mythologized religious figure who lived 2,000 years ago would say, I will admit I find that interesting. I never imagined one would be related to the other, but the internet is a wondrous place.

3) You misunderstood what I said. How would it be materially different if the leaders publicized themselves filling out the forms online, with, say, counsel to do the same, telling their flock that they literally are getting vaccinated when its their turn versus jumping the queue, and urging them to do the same and to get the jab?

I honestly don't know, but I suspect the influence is greater when people see them getting shots. As Jersey Girl pointed out, many people have gotten them publicly. For example, when Kamela Harris (not a doctor, age 56) got her vaccination in December, it was reported specifically:

Earlier in the day, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris received a COVID-19 vaccination on live television in a bid to boost public confidence in immunizations.

I would agree there are many other reasons for Harris to have been vaccinated, but it's interesting they specifically cited community influence as a reason for the public vaccination.

So someone who is making these decisions thinks it makes a difference, even if they might not know exactly what Jesus would do in that same situation.

[Moksha]

Would anyone kvetch if Pharaoh received his vaccination first?

[Lem]

Would anyone kvetch if Pharaoh received his vaccination first?

Bernie's looking a little peaked. Maybe do him first.