If there is a god is he evil?

[Physics Guy]

The only Biblical answers to the problem of evil that I have identified are the next-to-last scene in the book of Job, where God says that humans just have no idea what it takes to run a universe, and the episode where Jesus gives sight to the man who was born blind, as a parable to show how overwhelmingly greater good can result from evil.

These are essentially the answers offered by Officers 5 and 9 in "The Tale of the Twelve Officers". They are answers, though, that work a lot better for an actual God than for a police officer. I think the Tale of Twelve is abusing the rhetorical device of the allegory, here, because these two answers only seem ridiculous for a human police officer. If the police officers were superhuman aliens like Star Trek's Q, then answers 5 and 9 wouldn't be so absurd.

The Tale of Twelve seems effective because the notion of God as a cop is a reasonable analogy up to a point, but I think you're really missing a point about the theological problem of evil if your charge against God relies essentially on overlooking superhuman knowledge and power. Both these 5,9 / Job,Jesus answers seem plausible to me as the way things might look from God's point of view, though they hardly resolve the problem for humans who can't see any even comparable good emerging from some evils, or imagine why the universe might break down so badly in some cases when it otherwise seems to run fairly well.

A God who can arrange a tailor-made afterlife has infinite powers of recompense. I can't recall whether it's a Quran verse or just a Muslim tradition but the concept is that just a few moments in heaven are enough to make one forget that one has ever suffered at all. Unfortunately for human argument on the subject, we have no hard information about any afterlife, but I think this issue is unavoidably on the table if one is trying to convict God of evil. It's close to a get-out-of-jail-free card for God, because I think it does logically counter the otherwise overwhelming charge that some evils are just too big.

Nobody is going to say that little kids occasionally scraping their knees proves that there is no good God. That level of evil seems pretty bad at the time to the children involved but adults know good things in the world that far outweigh the scraped knees. It doesn't seem too hard to suppose that maybe a universe that allows some scraped knees could really be a lot better than one that sacrifices other possibilities in order to ensure that scraped knees never happen. Unfortunately for the clear resolution of our discussion of evil, however, the scope of possibilities available to God is so great that even evils that overwhelm human adults might be like scraped knees in that larger perspective.

We don't know, and I don't think we could expect to know, what it would actually cost for God to prevent bad things from happening, or what opportunities for good God may have. I can only reply to Job's whirlwind, "No, I've never commanded the morning," and to Jesus, "Well, I sure hope you're right."

[Physics Guy]

If God is evil, then (1) He has to allow good, in order for people to choose the evil.

The idea that God might actually want people to choose evil, the way theistic religions teach that God wants us to choose good, is a separate question from the usual problem of why a good God might allow bad things to happen.

Good and evil only seem like symmetrical alternatives if you're thinking of "choosing good" as obeying an arbitrary taboo like not drinking coffee. Heck, if that's your notion of evil then I could totally buy evil God. God may well want everyone to drink coffee.

Good and evil as moral principles aren't really that dumb, and they are not symmetrical. Good is not selfish, evil is not altruistic. Selfish acts benefit one person, altruistic ones benefit many. So there is a built-in strong tendency for good choices to produce more interesting total outcomes for everything, and for evil choices to produce uglier outcomes on the large scale.

I find it hard to take seriously the notion that a being who by definition sees the whole picture could actually want people to behave selfishly.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I dunno. Did He create bone cancer and eye parasites?

- Doc

[dastardly stem]

It is often argued that believers know God is there because of the good that exists all around us. If in response someone wonders, what of the bad that happens all around us? How does that suggest a God. There are three popular ways to address that from a believers perspective (I'm taking much of these thoughts from "The evil-god challenge", from "Cambridge University Press 2010. Religious Studies, 353-373, https://www.cambridge.org/.../content/v ... 2509990369):

I can't access your link for some reason, dstem, is there another ?

Oh shoot. Didn't realize it wasn't working:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... B25F649F27

[dastardly stem]

Oops. Let me fix and come back.

[dastardly stem]

I find it hard to take seriously the notion that a being who by definition sees the whole picture could actually want people to behave selfishly.

Not a Republican, huh?

[mentalgymnast]

I dunno. Did He create bone cancer and eye parasites?

- Doc

Does what Physics Guy said apply to your question?

Nobody is going to say that little kids occasionally scraping their knees proves that there is no good God. That level of evil seems pretty bad at the time to the children involved but adults know good things in the world that far outweigh the scraped knees. It doesn't seem too hard to suppose that maybe a universe that allows some scraped knees could really be a lot better than one that sacrifices other possibilities in order to ensure that scraped knees never happen. Unfortunately for the clear resolution of our discussion of evil, however, the scope of possibilities available to God is so great that even evils that overwhelm human adults might be like scraped knees in that larger perspective.

Regards,
MG

[Lem]

I can't access your link for some reason, dstem, is there another ?

Oh shoot. Didn't realize it wasn't working:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... B25F649F27

Thank you!

[honorentheos]

I dunno. Did He create bone cancer and eye parasites?

- Doc

Does what Physics Guy said apply to your question?

Nobody is going to say that little kids occasionally scraping their knees proves that there is no good God. That level of evil seems pretty bad at the time to the children involved but adults know good things in the world that far outweigh the scraped knees. It doesn't seem too hard to suppose that maybe a universe that allows some scraped knees could really be a lot better than one that sacrifices other possibilities in order to ensure that scraped knees never happen. Unfortunately for the clear resolution of our discussion of evil, however, the scope of possibilities available to God is so great that even evils that overwhelm human adults might be like scraped knees in that larger perspective.

Regards,
MG

Not really. It argues that very real, horrific and terminal conditions will.be offset by an unobservable hoped for recompense of such unimaginable greatness the giver of this recompense cannot be blamed for avoiding stepping in to stop this horrific condition from occuring. It implies that the horrific condition is somehow necessary for the unimaginable recompense to be possible as well. It makes a martyr out of everyone who dies painfully, and a Jesus-figure out of everyone who suffers immensely at the hands of evil people as their suffering is necessary for everyone to get a shot at heaven.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I mean, one could be forgiven for giving God a pass if a toddler takes the inevitable tumble. You know, scrapes their knee. But, what kind of mind does it take to design fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva? Or how about aquagenic urticaria? You see there are actual gradations of design features in the programming that require a real bastard of a mind in order for it to be designed, developed, and implemented.

So. You tell me.

Did God create bone cancer?

- Doc