And the Impotence Came Crashing In

[DrW]

I'm not here to defend Trump.

Glad to hear it. It kind of sounded as if you were.

So, carry on.

Will do. Thanks.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I'm not here to defend Trump. So, carry on.

Weird how you seem to have such an open mind with him, or to find yourself exceedingly skeptical when it comes to his wrongdoing.

That said, it’s hard to have a dialogue with people who require perfect proof, and I’m talking about a videotaped confession along with videotaped evidence, in order to convict Trump of any sort of wrongdoing - even then it wouldn’t really matter because of the ‘imperfect vessel’ mental loophole they employ - but demand 100% systemic perfection from the Left that must meet ever increasing off-the-cuff demands that we somehow should’ve anticipated and created safeguards against.

This, of course, is all meant to move us toward something truly awful, that we’re just now realizing exists in the hearts of the Right. They’re not Americans in any meaningful sense, since they hate more than half the country, hate the government, and crap all over the sacrifices of those who came before and serve now to preserve the Union. They detest democracy, abhor egalitarian principles, and think Liberalism is Communism. We’re dealing with deeply disturbed folks, and this sickness manifested and metastasized over the last four years.

What Trump and the GOP is doing right now is an existential threat against our United States.

- Doc

[Moksha]

I agree he is probably a narcissist. I don't know if that alone disqualifies him. I am sure Washington is full of narcissists.

If you couple that with being a pathological liar, you can understand why Trump holds the world record for most documented lies ever told by a world leader. by the way, it did not take long for other world leaders to figure out how to manipulate Trump: give him overeffusive compliments that resonate with his narcissism. Ivanka has probably long known to tell him he is the best and sexiest daddy in the whole universe.

[Dr Exiled]

I'm not here to defend Trump. So, carry on.

Weird how you seem to have such an open mind with him, or to find yourself exceedingly skeptical when it comes to his wrongdoing.

That said, it’s hard to have a dialogue with people who require perfect proof, and I’m talking about a videotaped confession along with videotaped evidence, in order to convict Trump of any sort of wrongdoing - even then it wouldn’t really matter because of the ‘imperfect vessel’ mental loophole they employ - but demand 100% systemic perfection from the Left that must meet ever increasing off-the-cuff demands that we somehow should’ve anticipated and created safeguards against.

This, of course, is all meant to move us toward something truly awful, that we’re just now realizing exists in the hearts of the Right. They’re not Americans in any meaningful sense, since they hate more than half the country, hate the government, and [vulgarity] all over the sacrifices of those who came before and serve now to preserve the Union. They detest democracy, abhor egalitarian principles, and think Liberalism is Communism. We’re dealing with deeply disturbed folks, and this sickness manifested and metastasized over the last four years.

What Trump and the GOP is doing right now is an existential threat against our United States.

- Doc

That's a bit much (the bold part). They are merely asking to look into the questionable occurrences that happened in the swing states. I bet if Trump loses his legal battles, he will concede. He would be a fool not to as he would start losing his base. Trump doesn't want to lose his popularity with his base and could leverage said popularity into a television show or perhaps a new network. So, he doesn't want to be removed by force and will leave in peace in my opinion. Just give it a few more weeks.

[Dr Exiled]

I agree he is probably a narcissist. I don't know if that alone disqualifies him. I am sure Washington is full of narcissists.

If you couple that with being a pathological liar, you can understand why Trump holds the world record for most documented lies ever told by a world leader. by the way, it did not take long for other world leaders to figure out how to manipulate Trump: give him overeffusive compliments that resonate with his narcissism. Ivanka has probably long known to tell him he is the best and sexiest daddy in the whole universe.

Yeah, Trump loves to be worshiped. That's for sure.

[Res Ipsa]

That's a bit much (the bold part). They are merely asking to look into the questionable occurrences that happened in the swing states. I bet if Trump loses his legal battles, he will concede. He would be a fool not to as he would start losing his base. Trump doesn't want to lose his popularity with his base and could leverage said popularity into a television show or perhaps a new network. So, he doesn't want to be removed by force and will leave in peace in my opinion. Just give it a few more weeks.

in my opinion, you are completely misrepresenting what is going on. This is part of a campaign to undermine trust in fundamental democratic (small d) institutions. I'm sure the self-described Leninist Steve Bannon, who said he wants to burn it all down, is loving it. Elections are never perfect. Counting 150 million votes will undoubtedly involve mistakes. But the system builds in ways to correct them, and we've seen example of errors that were discovered, investigated, and remedied within the system itself. And, certainly, if an error is found and not corrected, going to court is a perfectly appropriate thing to do.

But that's not what this is. I'm sure you know this from years of legal practice. This is throwing a bunch of crap at the wall, praying that the judge will be swayed by volume rather than merit. Trump has been undermining the integrity of the election process for over four years. He's escalated over the past year -- convincing millions of Americans that the only way he could lose the election is through fraud. Knowing that mail in ballots take time to count, he urged his supporters to vote on election, and claimed for weeks that if the election wasn't resolved on election night, Democrats were trying to steal the election.

Trump has a cult-like following that is damn big. He's repeatedly told his people not to believe what they see or read -- only he will give them the truth. And his devotees have shown over and over that they will flat out ignore or deny evidence if it conflicts with what Trump says. How else do you convince thousands of people to ignore the danger to their own life and health to go to a political rally?

Trump's base will never abandon him, because he built a base on the lie that Trump is the only person they can trust. They will never believe he lost this election because they will interpret any concession by him as either being under extreme duress or making the ultimate sacrifice for the good of America. But they won't abandon him and they won't accept that he lost.

Have you been watching the press conferences that precede or accompany the lawsuits. Trump and his allies aren't saying "well, we think there are some irregularities and we want to make sure everyone's vote has been counted. They are screaming FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD!!! That's not a good faith attempt to check out irregularities. It's a bad faith attempt to undermine our election process. It's authoritarianism 101.

Trump's base has been eating up lie after lie for several years now. What makes you think they're suddenly going to conclude that Trump is lying to them now?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Trump and Co. have been saying for months that the election is a sham, that widespread fraud was happening, and they weren’t going to accept the results unless it tilted in their favor “despite the cheating.”

This was expected, and the fact people are giving this credence is wrong.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

Trump and Co. have been saying for months that the election is a sham, that widespread fraud was happening, and they weren’t going to accept the results unless it tilted in their favor “despite the cheating.”

This was expected, and the fact people are giving this credence is wrong.

- Doc

As is treating this as a normal part of the election process.

[Some Schmo]

I feel like if you really have to explain to someone why Trump is a threat to our democracy, they don't really give a crap about democracy.

I've come to the conclusion that there are a ton of Americans who aren't as sold on democracy as their faux patriotism would imply.

I've asked this before but never gotten a cogent answer: what is it about America that is so damned great to right wingers? They act like this country sucks ass. They act like the constitution (except the divine second amendment) is meaningless. America is great... but it would be really awesome if it were a full dictatorship?

Again, hard to see Trumpsters as anything but ignorant and/or assholes.

[Gadianton]

That's a bit much (the bold part). They are merely asking to look into the questionable occurrences that happened in the swing states. I bet if Trump loses his legal battles, he will concede. He would be a fool not to as he would start losing his base.

I think Res is probably right here. Let me ask you this: Is there any example of Trump ever conceding anything of importance since he's been President?

The snipets I've watched don't show him talking about "irregularities" but Democrats "making up" the votes they are deficient on to win.

In short, he's obviously trying to win by the subgenius-endorsed route of democracy by "accusation gone viral". If everyone is willing to say the sky is green instead of blue, then for the record, it's green.

If he loses, it sounds like his sons are going to take up the cross and make outright lying and win-by-meme their entire campaign platform for the foreseeable future.

I haven't directly asked my Trump-supporting associates about this, but the vibe I get is the ones I've interacted with believe he's lost,yet they won't comment on his attempt to win by lying about it. I think they are open to it, if he can get away with it.

So what are his chances of winning like this?

The scary part is that I think if you take those of highest authorities, senators and Supreme Court Justices; they are willing to get behind the lie 100%.

But, I have a hard time believing it will work beyond dragging things out. As I think about it, a key problem is what's happening at the ground level. It's easy for a Senator, or the President to lie from 10,000 feet above ground level. It's easy for angry Republicans to lie at the Church pulpit, or on youtube or Facebook. But for those on ground level, they have to invent evidence, invent specific material accusations and ultimately, be ready to perjure themselves in court for the cause, and that's a pretty high risk to take. You'd have to have a great deal of faith your party can and will save you if you can't pull it off. And this has to be done by many people in different positions across several states.