Okay Bond! You win.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Addicted?

Certainly. If I wasn't I'd been off here long ago.

[_gramps]

I'm quite interested in the transition people make to move from religious morality to finding a new path. I hope there are some responses to your post, gramps.

I'm sorry I didn't get to your original thread on similar subject matter.

I won't be hanging around much either in the future.

It has really been a delight getting to know you. Stay in touch!

[_gramps]

O. K. Let's take it over the top with this discussion.

When I lost belief in god, I realized that a large part of the morals I 'believed' in had been taught to me by my parents and by priesthood leaders and extended family. I found myself in somewhat of a chaos. It was not unpleasant, at all. But, I wasn't sure any longer that they were a part of me!

But I began to question everything I had assumed and thought was right, both for fun and practical purposes. I found myself at times doing utilitarian calculus before I would consummate a desired path. Or then I would run a Kantian analysis and think about how that would work in a given situation. And then I would compare my thinking with my conscience, and then analyze that.

I also tried to understand Pierce and James. At times, I think pragmatism seems reasonable to me.

How have you guys navigated through all of this? Has it been fun? Would you do it all over again? How have you developed your moral compass? Do you have any foundational principles that guide you? How do you wade through the maze of it all?

I should say, in the spirit of full disclosure and all, that one of my guiding principles while going through the maze, at least, was that if it doesn't hurt anyone else, then, take the risk and see what it is all about.

It has been an interesting ride, indeed.

I myself am right in that area gramps, having been razed with the traditional CHristian moral code and largely still holding to it. WHy you might as for an atheist such as I? Well probably because we're only willing to change our morals when we find something that feels good, and thus have a valid reason to replace them. Otherwise, we're on the autopilot morals our parents installed. Which of course has been a total block on me experiencing those moral changing experiences, notably the whole don't have sex before marriage rule which seemed to run my life for a number of years, no drinking and smoking dope less so. Couple that with a bit of bad luck a bit of standoffish/shy nature and you end up with little experience indeed. Religion is certainly a double bind in that reguard of letting us feell out our morality for ourselves rather than being dictated morality.

As to doing mental calculus, been there as well. I don't know the exact mathematical formulas or whatever, but down on the farm we call it "ciphering" and usually I talk myself outta a given course, aided by that Christian morality, both internally but also socially living in the Bible Belt.

Man I suck....I think I'll get shitfaced and relapse.

You are still young. You have a lot of time, but it always goes faster and faster. Try your best not to waste it. As far as we know, we only get one. :)

[_silentkid]

How have you guys navigated through all of this? Has it been fun? Would you do it all over again? How have you developed your moral compass? Do you have any foundational principles that guide you? How do you wade through the maze of it all?

I should say, in the spirit of full disclosure and all, that one of my guiding principles while going through the maze, at least, was that if it doesn't hurt anyone else, then, take the risk and see what it is all about.

It has been an interesting ride, indeed.

I'm still navigating through this. I'm pretty close with my family, all of whom still retain a belief in Mormonism. My atheism has been difficult for them to accept, along with the occasional beer I like to enjoy. I think my morals are still subconsiously guided by my strict upbringing. I feel like I missed out on a lot of life experiences because of that. I'm 32 years old and I'm still a virgin. This is the most difficult thing I'm dealing with in my life at the moment. I need to get to Amsterdam to take care of this problem, right gramps? :) I find that lately I'm becoming more enamored with the ethical approach that if it doesn't hurt others then go for it. My problem is that my actions still have an impact on my family, or at least my perception of how my family views me, which shouldn't matter to me if I were truly happy with myself, which isn't the case most of the time, so I go around and around in circles. It's been interesting.

[_gramps]

How have you guys navigated through all of this? Has it been fun? Would you do it all over again? How have you developed your moral compass? Do you have any foundational principles that guide you? How do you wade through the maze of it all?

I should say, in the spirit of full disclosure and all, that one of my guiding principles while going through the maze, at least, was that if it doesn't hurt anyone else, then, take the risk and see what it is all about.

It has been an interesting ride, indeed.

I'm still navigating through this. I'm pretty close with my family, all of whom still retain a belief in Mormonism. My atheism has been difficult for them to accept, along with the occasional beer I like to enjoy. I think my morals are still subconsiously guided by my strict upbringing. I feel like I missed out on a lot of life experiences because of that. I'm 32 years old and I'm still a virgin. This is the most difficult thing I'm dealing with in my life at the moment. I need to get to Amsterdam to take care of this problem, right gramps? :) I find that lately I'm becoming more enamored with the ethical approach that if it doesn't hurt others then go for it. My problem is that my actions still have an impact on my family, or at least my perception of how my family views me, which shouldn't matter to me if I were truly happy with myself, which isn't the case most of the time, so I go around and around in circles. It's been interesting.

Well, stay in touch as you do navigate through this. It sure is fun to navigate through it.

Well, it sounds like Bruges would be a better place for initiation. I'll be there this year on my 50th.

I'm not saying good bye yet, but I won't be around much.

You are lucky to have a relationship with your family. Losing my belief in Christ killed my father. that was the no returner, really. this part of it all is not very fun, is it?

[_silentkid]

Congrats on your 1000 posts! I'll PM you my email address. Next time I'm in Europe, I'll let you know. We can share a few Augustiners.

[_Blixa]

Yay gramps made it!!

Silentkid you should pm me your email too...

[_gramps]

Congrats on your 1000 posts! I'll PM you my email address. Next time I'm in Europe, I'll let you know. We can share a few Augustiners.

Thanks! Please do. I'll send you my website. You can stay in touch through that. Hope you can come over some time!

Love your avatar. ;)

[_gramps]

Congrats on your 1000 posts! I'll PM you my email address. Next time I'm in Europe, I'll let you know. We can share a few Augustiners.

Thanks! Please do. I'll send you my website. You can stay in touch through that. Hope you can come over some time!

Love your avatar. ;)

Thanks! It was tough. But, like the little engine that could....

[_Ray A]

How have you guys navigated through all of this? Has it been fun? Would you do it all over again? How have you developed your moral compass? Do you have any foundational principles that guide you? How do you wade through the maze of it all?

I've developed a moral compass pretty much like yours, gramps. It's really not difficult. What causes others pain, avoid. What causes others suffering, avoid. More than that, what helps others, do. What lifts and encourages others, do. And I've tried to adopt the saying that "an injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere" (attributed to many, but certainly spoken of by Bishop Desmond Tutu in recent times).

I'll go over the top too and admit that it's really only in the last 12 months that I've found more contentment than I ever had. I suppose you'd think that by 54 one would have worked this out! I've had a lot of "excess baggage" to dump, mainly induced by first by a Catholic upbringing, then Mormonism. It's "de ja vu" for me when I see people going through this now. Not even the Book of Mormon plays as important a role to me now, as it did in the recent past. In fact these days I prefer selected parts of the Bible, because there's something more realistic about Christianity to me, than Mormonism. I really don't care much what others think about my "morality", and I don't fret over religious scruples as I once did. It's not just about finding a "moral compass", but finding a "life compass". I suppose I do have an advantage in that this is really my "default position", being a convert to Mormonism. But I now see how this engendered "wild imaginings" in my sometimes "tormented soul". I've now even lost most interest in blogging about it, and have changed the emphasis of my blog. Let them eat hay (believe what they want to believe). Anyone, anywhere.

I think we are all motivated by vastly different, and complex life experiences, religious experiences, upbringing, and how we perceive life is the position we take on most issues. Boaz is at where he needs to be at. Dan Peterson is at where he needs to be at. Gramps is at because it's where he needs to be at. We are complex mazes of different perceptions, and on a life-time journey of personal discovery. What others "perceive" isn't that important, I think, but living the way you know brings you the most sense of meaning and happiness.