America was great during slavery, Moore tells black man

[_EAllusion]

To be fair, during slavery saves were not African American...they were just slaves. And while you may not like the context, Moore did not say that slavery was the reason for family unity. Like it or not, slavery is a reference point in history and not everything that occurred during that Era is a horrible characteristic of American culture.

And yes, while not the particular eloquence you would enjoy from your velvet chair, his point is one of nostalgia and one that obviously resonates.
See, you condemn someone for saying the "good Ole days" because you assume they mean it was good because those were days when women and blacks couldn't vote and knew their place...but while that was coincidental to the time, you seemingly have forgotten how nostalgia works, both realistically and politically.

And obvioulsy, you have never lived in or visited Florence Alabama...whereas, ironically, I have...my oldest son was born there and where my mother's ashes are still interred....and I could tell you entertaining stories about my years in an area referred to often as the armpit of the South.

Black families were consistently broken apart during slavery. This was not the high point of integrity of the family unit. But even if we overlook that and assume that Roy Moore, like you, thinks that good old days were good despite blemishes like millions of people being enslaved, women lacking the right to vote, systematic mistreatment of Native Americans, etc.

The thing is, Roy Moore also thinks that the United States today is the focus of evil in the modern world. He cites same sex marriage as the reason why. So the US was a fantastic country when it was the most important slave-state in the world. But now, it's A#1 evil because of gay marriage.

This tells us Roy Moore's, and your, priorities.

[_Chap]

Please don't do that kind of thing subgenius.

Even if white slave-owning families were models of monogamous duty and love, their way of life was based on the misery and degradation of masses of human beings whose attempts to form normal human family bonds could be and often were ripped apart at the whim of their masters.

Moore was basically treating black people as if they ... well, weren't people, when he praised the supposed strength of families in the old south. Any society that can hear a man do that without crying out in disgust and outrage has a big problem.

And in any case, mere visual inspection of the current African American population shows that large numbers of slave-owing white men saw no reason not to force themselves on the black women they owned, as well as enjoying the white women they had married. As Mary Chestnut remarked:

...God forgive us, but ours is a monstrous system & wrong & iniquity. Perhaps the rest of the world is as bad. This is only what I see: like the patriarchs of old, our men live all in one house with their wives & their concubines, & the Mulattos one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children-& every lady tells you who is the father of all the Mulatto children in everybody's household, but those in her own, she seems to think drop from the clouds or pretends so to think-.

What was that thing that a group of freed slave men said when they volunteered for service in the Union army? "The only coward blood in our veins is the white.'

[_Maksutov]

Please don't do that kind of thing subgenius.

Even if white slave-owning families were models of monogamous duty and love, their way of life was based on the misery and degradation of masses of human beings whose attempts to form normal human family bonds could be and often were ripped apart at the whim of their masters.

Moore was basically treating black people as if they ... well, weren't people, when he praised the supposed strength of families in the old south. Any society that can hear a man do that without crying out in disgust and outrage has a big problem.

And in any case, mere visual inspection of the current African American population shows that large numbers of slave-owing white men saw no reason not to force themselves on the black women they owned, as well as enjoying the white women they had married. As Mary Chesnut remarked:

...God forgive us, but ours is a monstrous system & wrong & iniquity. Perhaps the rest of the world is as bad. This is only what I see: like the patriarchs of old, our men live all in one house with their wives & their concubines, & the Mulattos one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children-& every lady tells you who is the father of all the Mulatto children in everybody's household, but those in her own, she seems to think drop from the clouds or pretends so to think-.

What was that thing that a group of freed slave men said when they volunteered for service in the Union army? "The only coward blood in our veins is the white.'

Remember that subby thinks it's cute to play with Holocaust denial. Don't expect him to treat slavery thoughtfully.

[_Choyo Chagas]

Don't expect him to treat slavery thoughtfully.

or anything

[_Brackite]

Roy Moore will become the next Senator from Alabama on Tuesday.

Yep. He will. Alabama is a deep red state. Trump got a higher percentage of the vote from Alabama than Hillary did from California.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well. We're talking about this kind of man:



- Doc

[Guest]

At a rally in Florence, Alabama in September, an African American asked Roy Moore when he thought the United States was great.

I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery — they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction

Slave wedding vows were changed to read ''Till death or distance do we part". Slaves families were frequently separtated. Women and daughters separated from their husbands, often being raped by the slave master of their new home.

This ignorant Puke, from a slave state, does not know the first goddamn thing about the history of slavery if he thinks it was a good time for African American families. How the hell can someone that ignorant, a United States Candidate for Senate, say that in the 21st Century?

As to how out country could be considered great at a time when 1 out of 7 Americans was owned by another American, ask Roy Moore. I want to see how much of his foot can fit inside his mouth.

To be fair, during slavery saves were not African American...they were just slaves. And while you may not like the context, Moore did not say that slavery was the reason for family unity. Like it or not, slavery is a reference point in history and not everything that occurred during that Era is a horrible characteristic of American culture.

To be an African-American would imply that the slaves were American. You are correct. Slaves did not have rights, so 'American' meant only that they were slaves in America. They were not considered Americans with respect to rights or citizenship. I'm not actually sure what point you are trying to make.

And yes, while not the particular eloquence you would enjoy from your velvet chair, his point is one of nostalgia and one that obviously resonates. See, you condemn someone for saying the "good Ole days" because you assume they mean it was good because those were days when women and blacks couldn't vote and knew their place...but while that was coincidental to the time, you seemingly have forgotten how nostalgia works, both realistically and politically. And obviously, you have never lived in or visited Florence Alabama...whereas, ironically, I have...my oldest son was born there and where my mother's ashes are still interred....and I could tell you entertaining stories about my years in an area referred to often as the armpit of the South.

In 1860, the population of Alabama was 964,201, of which 435,080 were slaves. Let/s be clear: Roy Moore said our families were strong and our country had values during slavery. So he is talking about an institution that ensnared nearly half the human beings in his state.

No matter how nostalgic you might be for whatever image exists in popular culture for the Antebellum south



The image above is predicated on the reality below:

And it is his chair, and not my velvet one, that is the most germane to the conversation.

To me, waxing nostalgic about the Antebellum south is like having an Egyptian look at the Pyramids and saying "Look what you can accomplish without labor unions." Or a German looking at the autobahns and saying, "You know, that was a time when people were patriotic and pulled together".

You can still sit on your front porch with your Mint Julep. You can smell the honeysuckle, Spanish moss and magnolia. You can whistle 'Dixie'. But you just can't have your Mint Julep served to you by a human being who was kidnapped in Africa and brought over in chains. And if you cared about the lives of nearly half the people in your state at that time, your conscience would not allow nostalgia.

edited extensively for content

[_beastie]

Sub -

If you lived in Alabama, would you vote for Roy Moore?

[_EAllusion]

Roy Moore will become the next Senator from Alabama on Tuesday.

Yep. He will. Alabama is a deep red state. Trump got a higher percentage of the vote from Alabama than Hillary did from California.

Right now, it's about Moore +2. That's well within polling error. Alabama is deep red, but Jones is a good candidate, Moore is a bad one, and the national mood favors Democrats by about +8. That's why the race is close. Moore is a modest favorite at this point, not a guaranteed victory.

[_subgenius]

To me, waxing nostalgic about the Antebellum south is like ...(snip)....

This is my point about nostalgia as noted above. And further how you have no insight into southern culture or its nuances at all levels. And this only inasmuch as nostalgia is not just a political tool here, but everywhere.

By your narrow measure any evocation of the past must be dismissed because it is impossible to not find some group of disenfranchised people from that time.
History is winners and loses my friend. Sure there was slavery in some places, and povery in others, and disease, and illiteracy, and wild animals, and Apollo crashes, and deceit....and those who forgo nostalgia because the glass will never be full.
The Andrews Sisters had some great advice, that apparently should be dismissed because...well, because Negroes couldn't vote when the song was popular and thus....