When I was on my mission in Denmark in the mid 1960's, the opposite was clearly the case. The question of contraception came up in an interview of a local Danish Stake President by prominent Danish news media. This Stake President mistakenly opined that the LDS Church had no particular objection to married couples choosing to use contraception to limit the size of their families, especially for economic reasons as you described. He was immediately severely reprimanded for that by the Mission President and other church authorities, including Apostle Ezra Taft Benson, who happened to be the general authority assigned to oversee all European area missions at the time. That Stake President was ordered to publicly retract and apologize for having expressed that "misinformation", and make it clear that he was mistaken, and that the LDS Church in no way condoned the use of contraception except in the most extreme medical circumstances, if even then! Apparently, the church has greatly moderated its attitude towards contraception since then.ajax18 wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 11:43 amThat is odd. I was taught as a young missionary that birth control wasn't wrong and most other LDS embraced that view. The idea of no contraception control is completely unreasonable in my view. I even remember a branch president where I grew up counseled a welfare family with a Dad who couldn't/wouldn't hold a steady job to stop having more kids.But the problem here is that many (if not most) ant-abortionists are also strongly anti-contraceptives. It is hard to imagine why any anti-abortionist with any sense would also object to contraceptives which are a proven way to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
That is an amazing story Gunnar. Thanks for sharing that.When I was on my mission in Denmark in the mid 1960's, the opposite was clearly the case. The question of contraception came up in an interview of a local Danish Stake President by prominent Danish news media. This Stake President mistakenly opined that the LDS Church had no particular objection to married couples choosing to use contraception to limit the size of their families, especially for economic reasons as you described. He was immediately severely reprimanded for that by the Mission President and other church authorities, including Apostle Ezra Taft Benson, who happened to be the general authority assigned to oversee all European area missions at the time. That Stake President was ordered to publicly retract and apologize for having expressed that "misinformation", and make it clear that he was mistaken, and that the LDS Church in no way condoned the use of contraception except in the most extreme medical circumstances, if even then! Apparently, the church has greatly moderated its attitude towards contraception since then.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
When do you think the first reports of botched back-alley abortions will start springing up?
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
Deregulating abortion? What is your obsession with welfare families? Evidence proves that expanding access to birth control dramatically reduces rates of abortion, but your party fought tooth and nail against that because... "religious reasons."
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Who exactly doesn't have access to birth control or even has not in the last 30 years?
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
Students for Life of America are fighting against contraception. There are other right wing groups fighting it as well. As far as affordable goes, I'm guessing you're thinking condoms? They aren't 100% effective. Other methods are only available to underserved communities through programs like PP which is being defunded thanks to you "pro-life" people. That means less free condoms too.
The Dobbs decision has been a nightmare. Pregnant women have been told at the ER to wait in the parking lot until they're having an emergency to have a life saving abortion. Women having miscarriages can't get the medicine they need because they're banned (awaiting court decisions). MDs are afraid of being sued, jailed, convicted and losing their license for performing an illegal abortion even if it is life saving or treatment for a miscarriage. OBGYN's are fleeing states that ban abortions and new grads don't want to do their residency there. ER docs and residents aren't too keen either. Pro-life people got what they wanted and people will die for it.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
Women who work for religious institutions will not be able to get their birth control covered if the employer refuses to include it in the insurance package. This would be the case for women in the Evangelical Center for Flat Earth Studies and BYU-Idaho.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
Are you trying to tell me that all these out of wedlock pregnancies were due to condom or pharmaceutical failures? I doubt that is even the case for 10% of them. They happen 90% of the time because women or girls for that matter choose to get pregnant. Look how much Hunter Biden's baby Mama is getting. Could you live on $20k per month? I don't think welfare queens have children just for the money. But the government handouts have liberated them from needing an NBA player to knock them up and satisfy their drive to reproduce. Any gang banging street pharmacist will do. Most would prefer to be a mom than working at WalMart especially when Uncle Sam pays them just as well to make little Democrat voters as Walmart would pay to take verbal abuse from asshole customers. We get rid of the family, get rid of traditional responsibilities in relationships, and this is what has resulted. I think it was all done by design. Satan leads and guides the Democrat party, not Biden, not the deep state, not China, not soros, it's Satan.Father Francis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:16 amStudents for Life of America are fighting against contraception. There are other right wing groups fighting it as well. As far as affordable goes, I'm guessing you're thinking condoms? They aren't 100% effective. Other methods are only available to underserved communities through programs like PP which is being defunded thanks to you "pro-life" people. That means less free condoms too.
The Dobbs decision has been a nightmare. Pregnant women have been told at the ER to wait in the parking lot until they're having an emergency to have a life saving abortion. Women having miscarriages can't get the medicine they need because they're banned (awaiting court decisions). MDs are afraid of being sued, jailed, convicted and losing their license for performing an illegal abortion even if it is life saving or treatment for a miscarriage. OBGYN's are fleeing states that ban abortions and new grads don't want to do their residency there. ER docs and residents aren't too keen either. Pro-life people got what they wanted and people will die for it.
This isn't a pharmaceutical failure. It's a failure of both women and men to keep even the minimum level of their covenants with God as it pertains to marriage and sexual morality in bringing new life into the world and what responsibilities should be attached to that.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
That is literally demonizing people for having different views than you do, ajax. Literally. Though there is something to your post managing to include welfare queens and Satan given both are myths used by the religious right to avoid taking personal responsibility.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade
Instead of actually addressing anything I said you go on a nonsensical rant about Hunter Biden (Hillary's emails don't matter anymore?), "welfare queens" and Satan? None of those have anything to do with women facing urgent and emergent medical situations.ajax18 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:15 amAre you trying to tell me that all these out of wedlock pregnancies were due to condom or pharmaceutical failures? I doubt that is even the case for 10% of them. They happen 90% of the time because women or girls for that matter choose to get pregnant. Look how much Hunter Biden's baby Mama is getting. Could you live on $20k per month? I don't think welfare queens have children just for the money. But the government handouts have liberated them from needing an NBA player to knock them up and satisfy their drive to reproduce. Any gang banging street pharmacist will do. Most would prefer to be a mom than working at WalMart especially when Uncle Sam pays them just as well to make little Democrat voters as Walmart would pay to take verbal abuse from asshole customers. We get rid of the family, get rid of traditional responsibilities in relationships, and this is what has resulted. I think it was all done by design. Satan leads and guides the Democrat party, not Biden, not the deep state, not China, not soros, it's Satan.Father Francis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:16 am
Students for Life of America are fighting against contraception. There are other right wing groups fighting it as well. As far as affordable goes, I'm guessing you're thinking condoms? They aren't 100% effective. Other methods are only available to underserved communities through programs like PP which is being defunded thanks to you "pro-life" people. That means less free condoms too.
The Dobbs decision has been a nightmare. Pregnant women have been told at the ER to wait in the parking lot until they're having an emergency to have a life saving abortion. Women having miscarriages can't get the medicine they need because they're banned (awaiting court decisions). MDs are afraid of being sued, jailed, convicted and losing their license for performing an illegal abortion even if it is life saving or treatment for a miscarriage. OBGYN's are fleeing states that ban abortions and new grads don't want to do their residency there. ER docs and residents aren't too keen either. Pro-life people got what they wanted and people will die for it.
This isn't a pharmaceutical failure. It's a failure of both women and men to keep even the minimum level of their covenants with God as it pertains to marriage and sexual morality in bringing new life into the world and what responsibilities should be attached to that.
Try reading it again. I'm talking about abortions to save women's lives and women needing care after a natural miscarriage. Nothing you said had anything to do with what I was talking about.