How bad is this?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Sounds like she needs to grow up. She had the kids (and didn't you say she wants a few more?) well damn she can't just play incubator for 9 months and leave the kids to go feral. The kids will only do as well as (both) parents do towards helping them from the earliest years. Sounds like you need to get her outta the house, or at least out of the Sleep-Wakeup-Feed the kids-crash on the couch with magazine-feed the kids-crash on teh couch with Computer-rinse and repeat-sleep cycle.

This message brought to you by Bond...Single Childless No Parenting Experience James Bond.


Depression might also be involved...I know too well the cycle of Internet-TV-no work-no exercise-sleep repeat can lead to getting in a rut.

[_Jersey Girl]

Its friday and I'm going to tuck into this slowly. Its been a bad week and this issue I've been confronting for 5 years, possibly my whole life is a very complicated issue for me. Heres the thing. My life has consisted of changing parental figures every 5 years. The state removed me from my mothers house when I was in second grade and went to live with my father and his new wife. My father gained the most of the partial custody of me and my brother. My mother was under deep depression and in disarray, my bitch of a stepmother was a neat Freak psycho from the more inbred parts of Utah.

Which was the greater influence? The mother in deep depression and in disarray (thinking chaos is a good word here) or the neat Freak psycho? It seems pretty clear that your reaction has something to do with wanting "normalcy" in your life. At least, that's how I read you.

I keep the house orderly when I can, either through guilt or doing it myself but mostly through a combination of both. I hate having to guilt my wife into cleaning because its usually initiated right after I start to pick up when I get home. I'll start to straighten up the living room or kitchen and about a thord of the time she will join me, followed by a quick return to the couch and a request to clean the other room.

Have you ever asked her something to the effect "How do you see it as equitable for me to come home and clean house after a days work?" What might she say to something like that?

I like to cook so we share the meals when I am home. Breakfast, lunch and snacks are handled, no problem and can usually be found on the living room and kitchen floor/table/counter and smeared on the furniture.

That's tod's, Mercury. :-) Are you eating meals together at the kitchen table? If not, could you try it in an effort to reign in the trail of crumbs and smeary stuff we don't want to see a lab test done on? ;-)

The kids play consists of interacting with toys, various objects, pulling out the CD's/DVD's, destroying them interspersed with 2-5-10 minutes watching the ever present television. I observe consistently the TV is on when I leave in addition to when I return, the 31 month year old parked in front of it. Moms on the laptop or feeding the ten month old while on the laptop. What is done in between I cannot say with certainty, all I know is what I see when I come and go. I keep the TV to a minimum and recieve complaints when it is turned off.

I could write several posts in response to the above and I wouldn't put it past me either! Toddlers are notorius dumpers! No matter what happens in the near future, you're going to have the dumping going on for another couple of years. I know that doesn't sound promising, but it's good to have realistic expectations. Just off the top of my head, it doesn't seem as though your wife knows or understands what is possible to do with her children or what the benefit of those things might be. I will eventually make you a list.

I'm asking myself while reading here, what needs are being met for the children. On first glance, I don't see interaction between parent and child, language that is so valuable to children, and I see little predictability in the day. Children benefit from predictability, not a highly structured environment or schedule, but predictability. If your description is accurate, I see that Mom is essentially tuning out, while the children do whatever. All children, benefit from exploration however the most important piece is interaction. Let me hunt around for some stuff on Television for you. When children passively watch TV, they do not pick up the language skills and cues that they do with verbal exchange with a parent. That is to say, they aren't actively engaged.

My wifes half of the relationship seems to be collecting electronic versions of Japanese comics and watching Korean/japanese High school soap operas while phoning in the kids activities and the housework.

I have no comment to make regarding the above. I don't know if you're wife is Korean or Japanese. If she is, that would account for her choices in programming and literature.

I come home, ask how she is and I get depressed when I can't see anything constructive happened at the house today for her or my 31 month old. The 10 month old I worry will swallow bits of plastic, paper, food or other objects the toddler spreads throughout the house like confetti until I arrive home to clean.

If the house is littered with "stuff" there is a better than even chance that your 10 month old will swallow something eventually. I don't think I have to tell you that at that age, everything goes in the mouth. Have you ever picked up an object or whatever, brought it to your wife and asked, "What would happen if (10 month old) picked this up and swallowed it? Does this concern you?"

I am considering hiring a housekeeper but the purse strings are controlled by the one who does not earn any money. What I mean by that is a resounding "that costs money" is given as a reason to deny my repeated discussion of hiring a maid. We have money. What we don't have is one sides ability to acknowledge that whomever is responsible for the same duties a maid from Servicemaster provides, the same needs are not being met currently. Make sense?

Yes, you make sense. Are you unable to keep up with the finances yourself? I'm wondering if your wife does it because you are unable say for reasons such as you're too busy or you have ADD/ADHD and it's difficult for you. If she's not interested in hiring an house keeper, do you ever say to her outright "What are your ideas about how we can solve this?"

She is a staunch introvert. We married very young. We went to the same elementary, middle and highschool. She is affable and friendly but also very limited in her social depth. My social life and progression at work is challenged as the social life is how you get into higher positions. At HHC social functions are subsidized by the company but your partner adds strenghts I am trying to foster in her any normal upwardly mobile individual should want. She would have been happy staying middle class. This is a part of the larger problem I am dealing with.

I understand what you mean about the value of having your partner engage in social situations that increase your value or visibility at work. I don't think I can address the above with any amount of success. I can deal with the child aspects though.

I do what I can to maintain. Sweetheart gifts come often to her. Chocolates, Sonic coneys and runs to Starbucks are always our language for "I cared enough to go out of my way for my love". I love her and the kids more than anything. that's why I wrote the OP.

I believe you!

Naps for the 31 m/o are rarer and rarer. Oddly enough its the weekends when she gets her nap. The toddler is easy to put down. Hell, I just did that now. Took a half an hour but I did it.

Your oldest will give up her/his naps soon anyway, regardless of daily schedule. I want to try to offer you up a schedule but the thing is, unless your wife doesn't buy into that there are problems, I doubt that she would enforce it or see the wisdom in it.

Also, one more thing...are you sure that she doesn't do anything all day except sit on the couch, read comic books, etc? I remember years ago, JB saying something to the effect that "All you do is sit home all day"....I thought for a moment and replied, "Oh! You think that because the house looks like this when you come home that it looks like this all day!" And the next day, I didn't do anything at all.

He walked into toys all over the floor, food stuck to the wall and under the high chair mat, dishes piled up in the sink and dishwasher, clothes tossed all over the floor and bathroom.

"What the hell happened here?" and I said..."I sat home today".

This is how bad it is: I ask what the hell happened almost every day except now I don't even bother. I know what happened and so does she. No argument will solve it so we don't bother yelling at each other. I've had too much yelling in my life growing up to learn that raising your voice solves nothing. We never have yelled at each other aside from very specific moments that went nowhere until cooler heads prevailed, nothing lasting onger than ten seconds and no harsh words, just statements of feeling.[/quote]

Well, one thing that happened there is that you're living with toddlers. They have the attention span of a fruit fly and can overwhelm most any adult in sight with what they can manage to do in 15 minutes.

I have been asking "What the Hell Happened" consistently for the past 2 years and I am at a loss for what to do. Now I worry that my kids will be raised the same way she was raised, the seventh of ten kids in a household, raised by the occasional parent and reluctant big brother or sister in concert with the ever present TV.

That's what I was waiting for. Her role model for a mother. Like it or not, we learn how to be parents from our own parents and the "norms" that we're used to are either a comfort to us or we hate the living hell out of them and revolt against it when we become parents.

It sounds like your wife is being the type of mother her mother was.

But was that satisfying to her? I wouldn't know.

Children benefit from simple things such as predictability in their day and interaction with their primary caregiver. Interaction is a two way exchange and I don't see that happening in the above descriptions. Their sense of trust, self is built on what comes to them from outside themselves in their relationships and the environment they inhabit.

I do have a good suggestion for you that may have the effect of killing two birds with one stone but I'll make it in a separate post and there's someone reading this board who could probably predict what I'll suggest! :-)

Before I leave this little post, I want to confirm to you that you're doing more than your fair share and have earned your fatigue!

[_Jersey Girl]

Here is my first best suggestion to you, and feel free to put it on the back burner for a while.

Your oldest is 31 months old. Enroll her in an early childhood program in your area. You want to go part-day sessions in an accredited program. I can give you a list of programs in your area if you don't want me to post it here, tell me that.

It is possible that she could be accepted in an older two's program for a short term this summer, as a warm up for fall.

This is why I make the suggestion. In a good early childhood program:

1. Your child will learn a low level of structure and predictability.
2. Learn in a quality environment that is prepared for her particular stage of development in which she can freely explore.
3. Be introduced to good self help skills and habits (eating at the table, clearing her place, putting away toys, etc. and will likely get some toilet learning in the process.)
4. Be involved in verbal exchange with adults.
5. Get her away from the TV.

and most of all...

6. It will put your wife in contact with people educated in child development.
7. It will put her in contact with other mothers with which she has something in common.
8. It will help to plug in some structure to her days, if only two days a week, in having to get your 31 month old up and out to
preschool on time.
9. In an accredited program, there will likely be some parent education offered.

Let me know if you want me to provide you with a list of accredited programs in your area.

[_Mercury]

Let me know if you want me to provide you with a list of accredited programs in your area.

Sure thing. Area code 38654

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl's on it, ain't she? You'd almost get the idea that she does this for a living...

Here's some ideas...

1. Breakfast eaten in the kitchen or outdoors on the patio if you have one. Wash hands before and after.
2. Have the 31 month old clear the table and put the dishes in the dishwasher. Yes, she can do this. Teach her to sort the stuff.
It's math, Mercury.
3. Have the 31 month old help throw the laundry in. Yes, she can do it. She can dump, can't she? :-)
4. Laundry is in...play time, computer, japanese soaps or whatever.
5. Prior to lunch. Get a huge cardboard box or laundry basket. All the toys get dumped into it prior to lunch.
6. Lunch eaten in the kitchen or outdoors. Wash hands before and after.
7. More dishes go in the dishwasher.
8. After lunch...try naps.
9. After nap...snacks. Wash hands before and after.
10. Throw the laundry in the dryer.
11. Play time again...toys in the box get dumped out again.
12. Take the laundry out of the dryer. 31 month old helps drag it out of the dryer and helps sort things into piles. Math again.
13. Mom starts dinner and takes her laptop with her. Kids tear the house apart.
14. 31 month old sets the table for dinner while 10 month old causes mayhem elsewhere. Math again...sorting, one to one correspondence, mathematical groups. Each group has 1 plate, 1 fork, 1 knife, 1 spoon, 1 glass.
15. Just before Dad comes home, throw all the toys in the big box again. Think dumpers with an occupation! Vacuum a bit.
16. Dad comes home, dinner is ready, toys are off the flooor.
17. Eat dinner at the kitchen table or outdoors. Wash hands before and after.
18. 31 month old loads the rest of the dishes with Dad this time. Run dishes.
19. Free time.
20. Toys go back in the big box again.
21. Baths, stories, kids to bed.
20. Before parents go to bed, one of them unloads the dishwasher.


How'd I do?

:-)

[_Jersey Girl]

You need some of these:

[_Jersey Girl]

Let me know if you want me to provide you with a list of accredited programs in your area.

Sure thing. Area code 38654

I'll make a believer out of ya!

[_Mercury]

Jersey Girl's on it, ain't she? You'd almost get the idea that she does this for a living...

Here's some ideas...

1. Breakfast eaten in the kitchen or outdoors on the patio if you have one. Wash hands before and after.
2. Have the 31 month old clear the table and put the dishes in the dishwasher. Yes, she can do this. Teach her to sort the stuff.
It's math, Mercury.
3. Have the 31 month old help throw the laundry in. Yes, she can do it. She can dump, can't she? :-)
4. Laundry is in...play time, computer, japanese soaps or whatever.
5. Prior to lunch. Get a huge cardboard box or laundry basket. All the toys get dumped into it prior to lunch.
6. Lunch eaten in the kitchen or outdoors. Wash hands before and after.
7. More dishes go in the dishwasher.
8. After lunch...try naps.
9. After nap...snacks. Wash hands before and after.
10. Throw the laundry in the dryer.
11. Play time again...toys in the box get dumped out again.
12. Take the laundry out of the dryer. 31 month old helps drag it out of the dryer and helps sort things into piles. Math again.
13. Mom starts dinner and takes her laptop with her. Kids tear the house apart.
14. 31 month old sets the table for dinner while 10 month old causes mayhem elsewhere. Math again...sorting, one to one correspondence, mathematical groups. Each group has 1 plate, 1 fork, 1 knife, 1 spoon, 1 glass.
15. Just before Dad comes home, throw all the toys in the big box again. Think dumpers with an occupation! Vacuum a bit.
16. Dad comes home, dinner is ready, toys are off the flooor.
17. Eat dinner at the kitchen table or outdoors. Wash hands before and after.
18. 31 month old loads the rest of the dishes with Dad this time. Run dishes.
19. Free time.
20. Toys go back in the big box again.
21. Baths, stories, kids to bed.
20. Before parents go to bed, one of them unloads the dishwasher.


How'd I do?

:-)

iterations of such lists have been suggested. Where the massive difficulty lies is getting my wife to implement the plan without me seeming like "a control freak", her words.

Am I whipped? yah, a little.

[_Jersey Girl]

Here's your contact for the local affiliate of the NAEYC in your area.

http://www.taeyc.org/association-memphis.html

[_Jersey Girl]

Search results for a radius of 50 miles..

disregard....let me see if I can copy it.

A Children's Place at Schering-Plough
2980 Jackson Avenue
Memphis, TN 38151
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 320-2958
Program ID Number: 292810
Email: Schering@brighthorizons.com
Website:
Valid Until: 06/30/2008


A.D.T. Child Development Academy
1369 Norris Road
Memphis, TN 38106
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 774-1912
Program ID Number: 722563
Email: adtchilddevelopmentacademy@yahoo.com
Website:
Valid Until: 05/31/2011


Barbara K Lipman Early Learning Center @ Temple Israel
1376 East Massey Road
Memphis, TN 38120
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 937-2784
Program ID Number: 602539
Email: susanf@timemphis.org
Website:
Valid Until: 03/31/2013


Barbara K. Lipman Early Childhood School & Research Institute at the University of Memphis
3771 Popular Avenue
Memphis, TN 38111
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 678-2120
Program ID Number: 290231
Email: sbturnr1@memphis.edu
Website: http://ipman.memphis.edu
Valid Until: 06/30/2008


Bright Ideas Enrichment Center Inc
2104 Hillshire Circle
Memphis, TN 38133
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 380-9331
Program ID Number: 599806
Email: cindy@brightideasco.net
Website:
Valid Until: 05/31/2011


Calvary Place ChildCare
102 North Second Street
Memphis, TN 38103
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 521-7877
Program ID Number: 289696
Email: calvaryplace@calvaryjc.org
Website:
Valid Until: 08/31/2008


Christ Methodist Child Development Center
411 Grove Park
Memphis, TN 38117
County:
Phone: 901 683-3926
Program ID Number: 135735
Email: cdc@cmdsmemphis.org
Website:
Valid Until: 07/31/2010


Early Childhood Education Center
717 Beale Street
Memphis, TN 38104
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 333-5233
Program ID Number: 528743
Email: mpalmer@southwest.tn.edu
Website:
Valid Until: 10/31/2010


Emmanuel United Methodist Kindergarten
2404 Kirby Road
Memphis, TN 38119
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 754-3607
Program ID Number: 198207
Email: ejordan@emmanuelmemphis.org
Website:
Valid Until: 12/31/2012


Ernestine Rivers Child Care Center
867 South Parkway East
Memphis, TN 38106
County: Shelby
Phone: 901 948-6441
Program ID Number: 291983
Email: erccdirector@aol.com
Website:
Valid Until: 11/30/2010