Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

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_ldsfaqs
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _ldsfaqs »

krose wrote:Yes, it seems that I, as a lying liberal, failed to include minute details in a signature quote. Scandalous!


No, you just failed to COMPREHEND the details, because if you did you wouldn't be quoting something making it "seem" like Reagan was for gun control in some "wrong" way.

He wasn't, thus you misrepresent and LIE about him, taking his words out of context.

These important details include the fact that Hero Ronnie didn't want to actually confiscate anyone's guns by supporting and signing the Mulford Act; he just wanted to make sure those guns wouldn't be loaded and usable. Any reasonable person reading the quote below would, of course, assume that "carrying loaded weapons" meant he wanted to take all their weapons away. Such an unconscionable oversight. I apologize and will, or course, amend the offending signature forthwith.


Guns can quickly be loaded by cocking them. Thus, the claim that they were "unusable" is poppycock.

Also, as Brother faq so eloquently points out, Hero Ronnie must be forgiven for supporting gun control in 1967, because the taint of being a Democrat had not yet worn off. Makes sense to me. And there was still some residual leftist infection nearly two decades later, when he fully supported the Brady Bill. We must cut him some slack on these matters, unlike Herr Hitler-Muslim-Obama, who consistently defends the right to armed self defense, but only with his words and his actions, when we all know what's really in his heart (we just do, so shut up!).


The Brady Bill had mostly reasonable provisions. Thus, no sin.

No, we know from his words and the words of his supporters in and out of government that the liberal media ignores.

The erudite Brother faq also rightly points out it was black people who were carrying the guns at that time, so of course it was entirely appropriate for Hero Ronnie to limit their second amendment rights. The white founding fathers never intended for their property to be walking around with loaded weapons, any more than they believed their property and womenfolk should ever be allowed to vote (thankfully, the Supreme Court took care of that by allowing states to once again legally prevent the wrong colors of people from voting). Original intent is awesome.


Lie after lie after lie to try and make your argument. Sorry, you loose again.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _ldsfaqs »

And guess what Krose....... I have several times lived among blacks.

In fact, one of those times my best friend was black. Though liberals and liberal blacks would likely call him a sell-out, an Uncle Tom, etc., because he was actually a good and righteous man and sharp as a whip! Two of the best music teachers I've had whom I was very close to, were black women, wonderful women, conservative women, and one wasn't even Mormon but taught at BYUH. The other wasn't Mormon either, and we were in Augusta Georgia.

My mouth still waters being 13 there and having a natural Peach juice drink a few times, the best fruit drink I've ever had in my life. I so wish juice was like that still.

Nothing like liberal bigotry....! We judge men for their character, not their color or views.
But for liberals, unless you think like a liberal, you deserve their bigotry black or white.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Darth J
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _Darth J »

ldsfaqs wrote:Loaded mean's "not in the chamber" if you've read my post....

Also, look on Youtube for open carry in California, and you'll see cops doing illegal chamber checks, simply because someone is open carrying. I say illegal because it's illegal search and seizure under the 4th Amendment.

Someone doing a lawful activity isn't probable cause enough to detain or touch a citizens person or property.


I wonder what the legal standard is for a Terry stop. Obviously, a police officer could not reasonably articulate a suspicion that if someone has a firearm in plain view, he or she might have a round in the chamber.

Further, California has determined/changed the other law in which "loaded" is considered even the clip in the gun, which is too far in my mind. Further in 2012 California completely banned Open Carry, completely illegal.


ldsfaqs, as I believe that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms, I would love to see you make the further case that you have a constitutional right to openly carry a firearm with a full magazine. Be sure to explain that the state would have no compelling interests to restrict this asserted right.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

krose wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Do you live amongst Black people?

Some. Not a lot. Why?

Do I need to list my black friends to bolster credibility, a la Brother fax? No thanks. They, and my interactions with them, are irrelevant.


No, but you've become the advocate on this forum for Black People Issues.

I'm just wondering if you've lived among a demographic that includes more than... Say... 30% Black people since you're taking the positions you have.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_krose
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _krose »

krose wrote:I apologize and will, or course, amend the offending signature forthwith.

As promised, the signature has been amended. It's actually been amended twice now, which makes this the second amendment. How serendipitous!
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_krose
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _krose »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:... you've become the advocate on this forum for Black People Issues.

Is that right? That's an interesting take. I have no special stake in African American issues, but I do have a fondness for equality. I guess we haven't discussed immigration issues much, or you might label me an advocate for Latino issues.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ok. So you don't live among Black people, but you feel the need to advocate on their behalf.

Got it.

You have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey... Keep yappin' away from your Ivory tower.

- Doc

Post Script - Please let us know when you take up residence in an urban ghetto. Thank you in advance.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_ldsfaqs
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Darth J wrote:I wonder what the legal standard is for a Terry stop. Obviously, a police officer could not reasonably articulate a suspicion that if someone has a firearm in plain view, he or she might have a round in the chamber.


A Terry stop is a brief detention of a person by police on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.

I'm not sure I understand your second statement, but just to mention, that someone engaging in a lawful activity such as driving a car doesn't automatically assuming they are "hiding" something in their car. There must be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Likewise, someone carrying a gun doesn't automatically mean the police have the right to search your gun to see if you have a bullet in the chamber, to "see" if you might be breaking the law. That's directly against the 4th Amendment.

This reminds me of another article I read today in which "Mens Rea" is going and has been gone to the way side. People are making laws or making up offenses "criminalizing" activities for which there is no actual criminal intent or action, things like carrying a gun, filming police, having a magazine in a gun or even a round in a gun, and many more I'm not recalling at the moment.

Criminal Law was supposed to be for things that were actually "criminal" (Mens Rea), i.e. something that did harm in some way to others society, etc. Man I'm glad to have been reminded of this important principle. Intrinsically I knew and could explain what was wrong with certain activities, but Mens Rea is to the point legal precedent, the basis of law itself.

ldsfaqs, as I believe that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms, I would love to see you make the further case that you have a constitutional right to openly carry a firearm with a full magazine. Be sure to explain that the state would have no compelling interests to restrict this asserted right.


I believe I just made it, "Mens Rea"..... However, I'm not "necessarily" against this sort of law, but it's still really a feel good law, having no effect on anything, thus I'm ultimately not for it. Further, in "certain" actual real life situations, the time it takes to load your gun could mean life or death for you or someone else.

I see no compelling interest because as I've said, by what "studies" do they make the law in the first place? How does it actually make people safer? Entirely negligible I would say. In the spirit of Mens Rea and just reason I would be against it, but as a reasonable compromise, I wouldn't be against it for citizens, which is likely how Reagan thought about the issue.

But, that's not even the argument anymore.... California has now completely banned Open Carry which is blatantly against the Human Civil Right to self defense without undue burden by the state, and the Constitution.

I mean, liberals are a funny animal..... For people that want to "give rights" to every pet group or person under the sun, they sure like to take away rights if it fits their paradigm (and that applies to several issues). One for example is that Conservatives aren't even wanting to take away or stop Gay rights, we are simply asking them to be tolerant as they expect from us, showing a little respect and fairness and create THEIR Own institution, words and definition for their type of union. That's not asking too much. But BANS are asking too much. And anyone logically consistent and not using hypocrisy and double standards should agree.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Darth J
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _Darth J »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Ok. So you don't live among Black people, but you feel the need to advocate on their behalf.

Got it.

You have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey... Keep yappin' away from your Ivory tower.

- Doc

Post Script - Please let us know when you take up residence in an urban ghetto. Thank you in advance.


Yes. Unless you are a member of, or have lived among, every conceivable demographic group under which humans could be categorized, you are a hypocrite for advocating equal rights for everyone.

That is, after all, how people form value judgments, and why only antebellum plantation owners were competent to form an opinion about slavery.
_Darth J
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Re: Krose's lying Ronald Reagan Gun quote....

Post by _Darth J »

ldsfaqs wrote:
Darth J wrote:I wonder what the legal standard is for a Terry stop. Obviously, a police officer could not reasonably articulate a suspicion that if someone has a firearm in plain view, he or she might have a round in the chamber.


A Terry stop is a brief detention of a person by police on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.

I'm not sure I understand your second statement, but just to mention, that someone engaging in a lawful activity such as driving a car doesn't automatically assuming they are "hiding" something in their car. There must be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Likewise, someone carrying a gun doesn't automatically mean the police have the right to search your gun to see if you have a bullet in the chamber, to "see" if you might be breaking the law. That's directly against the 4th Amendment.


Pretty sure you can reasonably articulate a suspicion of having a round in the chamber if a person is openly carrying. You are just making a blanket statement that a Terry stop of a person openly carrying is per se unreasonable. That's unlikely to get very far if you are trying to suppress evidence. Never mind that you're not acknowledging that a person openly carrying a firearm has a lesser expectation of privacy than a person (lawfully) carrying a concealed firearm.

This reminds me of another article I read today in which "Mens Rea" is going and has been gone to the way side. People are making laws or making up offenses "criminalizing" activities for which there is no actual criminal intent or action, things like carrying a gun, filming police, having a magazine in a gun or even a round in a gun, and many more I'm not recalling at the moment.


Yeah, well, all I can say is it's too bad that there are all these lawyers who have never read the Constitution who are trying to destroy our rights by challenging these kinds of laws, and so many unelected tyrants in black robes who are willing to say statutes like that violate due process.

Criminal Law was supposed to be for things that were actually "criminal" (Mens Rea), i.e. something that did harm in some way to others society, etc. Man I'm glad to have been reminded of this important principle. Intrinsically I knew and could explain what was wrong with certain activities, but Mens Rea is to the point legal precedent, the basis of law itself.


Pretty sure you're confusing actus reus with mens rea.

ldsfaqs, as I believe that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms, I would love to see you make the further case that you have a constitutional right to openly carry a firearm with a full magazine. Be sure to explain that the state would have no compelling interests to restrict this asserted right.


I believe I just made it, "Mens Rea".....


The state of mind for a given crime has absolutely nothing to do with the extent of the rights protected by the Second Amendment.

However, I'm not "necessarily" against this sort of law, but it's still really a feel good law, having no effect on anything, thus I'm ultimately not for it. Further, in "certain" actual real life situations, the time it takes to load your gun could mean life or death for you or someone else.


So everyone should always have a gun in their hand, with the safety off and a round in the chamber, when walking around in public.

I see no compelling interest because as I've said, by what "studies" do they make the law in the first place? How does it actually make people safer? Entirely negligible I would say. In the spirit of Mens Rea and just reason I would be against it, but as a reasonable compromise, I wouldn't be against it for citizens, which is likely how Reagan thought about the issue.


Why not say in the spirit of res ipsa loquitur, or the spirit of nunc pro tunc, while you're at it?

Besides being very confused about what mens rea is, you also appear not to understand the difference between whether the government has the power to enact a given law, and whether as a political value judgment it should enact a given law.

But, that's not even the argument anymore.... California has now completely banned Open Carry which is blatantly against the Human Civil Right to self defense without undue burden by the state, and the Constitution.


That's some more of that begging the question thing. See, "it violates the Second Amendment because there is a basic human right to openly carry a firearm in public with a round in the chamber" isn't really explaining how you determined that this right exists. "What is the undue burden" is the question you are begging.

I mean, liberals are a funny animal..... For people that want to "give rights" to every pet group or person under the sun, they sure like to take away rights if it fits their paradigm. Conservatives aren't even wanting to take away Gay rights, we are simply asking them to be tolerant as they expect from us, showing a little respect and fairness and create THEIR Own institution, words and definition for their type of union. That's not asking too much.


I had two children with my former wife. Dallin H. Oaks has no children with his current wife, and never will. Why can't Dallin H. Oaks show a little respect for my marriage and create his own institution, words, and definition for his geriatric, childless marriage of convenience that involves nothing but companionship?

But BANS are asking too much. And anyone logically consistent and not using hypocrisy and double standards should agree.


A ban on open carry is not a ban on firearms. You still haven't explained how you determined that the Second Amendment is that extensive. And anyway, what if California made it a ballot initiative, and the majority of voters decided to take away your right to openly carry? Then you would be okay with it, wouldn't you?
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