This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

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_Chap
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote:Pelosi has missedthe opportunity to sacrifice for these federal employees...why is that?


I'll hazard a guess.

Perhaps as the current leader of a major part in the legislative branch of government, she feels that Trump is trying to establish that the executive (effectively Trump) can force the legislative branch to pass any legislation he wants by simply shutting down the government, regardless of the views of the elected legislators, or, for that matter, of the majority of American citizens.

And perhaps she thinks that is too much to sacrifice. Maybe she thinks that Trump should sacrifice his wall instead of trying to turn the country into a Presidential dictatorship?
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_subgenius
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _subgenius »

Chap wrote:
subgenius wrote:Pelosi has missedthe opportunity to sacrifice for these federal employees...why is that?


I'll hazard a guess.

of course.

Chap wrote:Perhaps as the current leader of a major part in the legislative branch of government,

actually, it is the minor part...the House isn't as powerful as the news coverage would lead you to believe. Notice how the first 3 bills introduced by the House this year were just parlor tricks with no teeth. You didn't see anything about health care did you?

Chap wrote:she feels that Trump is trying to establish that the executive (effectively Trump) can force the legislative branch to pass any legislation he wants by simply shutting down the government, regardless of the views of the elected legislators, or, for that matter, of the majority of American citizens.

So for being so powerful she is still at the Exec Branch mercy, and instead of policy she prefers politics....got it!

Chap wrote:And perhaps she thinks that is too much to sacrifice. Maybe she thinks that Trump should sacrifice his wall instead of trying to turn the country into a Presidential dictatorship?

So, you agree....the 1,000s of employess are just not worth it to her, thanks.
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_canpakes
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote: ...and note that Democrats would rather"Trump!" than support these federal workers as well...

Apparently the person doing the Trumpy stuff appears to be named Trump. He has some funds for his wall, but the Orange Toddler has to yield to his spit-frothing Base, and come groveling back for more. Gotta throw everyone else under the bus to please the Unite the Right crowd, I guess.

subgenius wrote:you guys are ringing true the current joke that if Trump supported oxygen you'd startholding your breath.

More likely that Trump believes oxygen to be a Chinese hoax.
_subgenius
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote: ...and note that Democrats would rather"Trump!" than support these federal workers as well...

Apparently the person doing the Trumpy stuff appears to be named Trump. He has some funds for his wall, but the Orange Toddler has to yield to his spit-frothing Base, and come groveling back for more. Gotta throw everyone else under the bus to please the Unite the Right crowd, I guess.

whatever, but still does not dismiss the charge that Pelosi doesn't think these workers are worth it.....the .01 percent budget item and political appearance are more of a priority for her and Schumer.

canpakes wrote:More likely that Trump believes oxygen to be a Chinese hoax.

well, that analogy is ….well....um....
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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_canpakes
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:Apparently the person doing the Trumpy stuff appears to be named Trump. He has some funds for his wall, but the Orange Toddler has to yield to his spit-frothing Base, and come groveling back for more. Gotta throw everyone else under the bus to please the Unite the Right crowd, I guess.

whatever, but still does not dismiss the charge that Pelosi doesn't think these workers are worth it.....the .01 percent budget item and political appearance are more of a priority for her and Schumer.

Maybe you can tell us why Trump needs to shut down the entire government over .01 percent of the budget. Clearly the legislation is there to fund the Government. Clearly the Democrats have this ready to go.

Tell us again why Trump can’t move forward with signing off on funding the government.
_subgenius
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:Maybe you can tell us why Trump needs to shut down the entire government over .01 percent of the budget.

Because he campaigned on the notion, and while compromise is often inevitable in politics - his constituency considers it to be important enough to stand firm against Pelosi's bullying and rhetoric on the matter.


canpakes wrote:Clearly the legislation is there to fund the Government. Clearly the Democrats have this ready to go.

and clearly the only thing preventing Pelosi from having federal workers paid on time is "Trump Derangement Syndrome".

canpakes wrote:Tell us again why Trump can’t move forward with signing off on funding the government.

scroll up like 4 or 5 lines in this post.....and then feel free (but you won't) to tell us why Pelosi won't be the hero and just sign off on the, what you guys claims is, the meaningless wall.....
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Chap
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _Chap »

Or, alternatively as the lawyers say:

subgenius wrote:his Pelosi's constituency considers it to be important enough to stand firm against Pelosi's Trump's bullying and rhetoric on the matter.


Goose. Gander. Sauce, etc.

And the mandate she represents is a bit more recent than his, apart from it being well-known that the majority of Americans are against building a wall.

And again: it is a very dangerous precedent for the executive to be able to say to the legislature "pass the laws I want, or the government gets it".

Which is what Trump is doing.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
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_Gunnar
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _Gunnar »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:Maybe you can tell us why Trump needs to shut down the entire government over .01 percent of the budget.

Because he campaigned on the notion, and while compromise is often inevitable in politics - his constituency considers it to be important enough to stand firm against Pelosi's bullying and rhetoric on the matter.

And what is Trump's constituency?
con·stit·u·en·cy (kən-stĭch′o͞o-ən-sē)
n. pl. con·stit·u·en·cies
1.
a. The body of voters or the residents of a district represented by an elected legislator or official.
b. The district so represented.

Does Trump's constituency not include the entire American electorate, 62% of which oppose building the wall? Is not the district represented by Trump the entire country, including Democrats, independents and all other political parties, not just Republicans? Is it wise or ethical to insist on what a majority of those he supposedly represents clearly oppose?

And who is the real bully here? There is no greater bully in American politics than Donald J. Trump! And no greater betrayer of his constituency--even many of those who actually voted for him, when everything he has accomplished or tried to do is considered!
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Gee, who could have known something like this might happen?

TSA Union Warns Of ‘Massive Security Risk’ As Some Officers Quit Amid Shutdown

“Every day I’m getting calls from my members about their extreme financial hardships and need for a paycheck,” one union official said.

At first, Transportation Security Administration screeners were just calling out sick from work. Now, some are quitting altogether, their union says.

In a statement released Tuesday, the American Federation of Government Employees, which represents the workers, warned that safety could take a big hit in transit hubs as the federal government shutdown drags into week three, leaving staff without pay.

“Every day I’m getting calls from my members about their extreme financial hardships and need for a paycheck,” said Hydrick Thomas, the organization’s TSA Council president. “Some of them have already quit and many are considering quitting the federal workforce because of this shutdown. The loss of officers, while we’re already shorthanded, will create a massive security risk for American travelers since we don’t have enough trainees in the pipeline or the ability to process new hires.”

Last week, AFGE launched a lawsuit against the federal government for forcing federal employees to show up to work uncompensated, calling the demands “inhumane.”

Around that time, the union said TSA agents were starting to skip work. The situation now appearing to be escalating.

In addition to raising security issues, fewer staffers on duty would increase wait times with longer lines at airports.

“It is completely unacceptable that the women and men who risk their lives safeguarding our airports are still required to report for work without knowing when they’ll be paid again,” AFGE National President J. David Cox Sr. said.

Cox argued that compared with other agencies, the workers are facing tougher conditions and lackluster wages, making the shutdown especially grueling.

“TSA Officers already have the least amount of rights of any federal officer, some of the lowest pay and highest attrition rates in government, and among the lowest morale of any federal agency. Working for weeks on end without being compensated ― while already being short-staffed ― only makes their situation worse,” he said.

The federal government spiraled into a partial shutdown last month over Congress’ inability to pass a spending bill including President Donald Trump’s demand for border wall funding. He’s seeking more than $5 billion, but Democrats have yet to budge and no end to the impasse is in sight.
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Re: This is probably what it will take to end shutdown

Post by _Kevin Graham »

According Trump and FOX News, Republicans are totally unified on his side. Yet the Pelosi Bill now has 8 Republican Congressmen and 4 Republican Senators come to her side. That's a majority in Congress to pass the Bill, but McConnell says he won't let it come to the floor because.... Trump won't sign it.

What a bunch of worthless puppets Congressional GOP have become. When has this ever happened? It is the job of Congress to vote on and pass bills, not refuse to do their job because the President won't do his. After all, they sure as hell didn't have any problem trying to passing a crap load of anti-Obamacare crap that they knew Obama wouldn't sign.
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