Q4 ajax18 (& other Wall backers): Where Should the Wall Go?

[_EAllusion]

Because Donald Trump takes multiple positions at the same time while lying about what he just said, it's easy to cherry pick comments of his to support a version of the wall you want. But his most consistent themes both during the campaign and post campaign is that the wall would be a tangible, difficult to cross barrier made of solid materials spanning the length of the border. He's famously criticized people for suggesting that what he wants or will achieve is anything less than this. You can find him saying otherwise because you can find Trump saying just about anything. You can even find Trump criticizing the exact kind of xenophobic rhetoric that is the beating essence of his politics.

[_Res Ipsa]

It seems to me that the desert is already a massive and effective natural barrier, but Trump still wants a wall. If a wall was put up in the desert in the middle of nowhere, getting over the wall would be the easiest part of the journey.

The cliff itself isn't that formidable of a natural barrier--as the photograph shows, it is easy for hikers with kids to follow paths down to the water. Does Trump intend for his wall to prevent visitors to the park from doing this?

Yes, and the reason drug runners avoid the open desert is because it is easy to see them and when they are spotted by CBP monitoring, they're basically sitting ducks because they're 40-80 miles to the nearest city. Drugs are flippin expensive and they don't take risks across the desert except in smaller quantities.

But even with a wall, the "mules" could come to the wall from the US side and wait for them to throw them over in bags or drop them over using drones or whatever. A wall does nothing in the end.

One thing walls do is shift the location where people try to cross, which has resulted in a substantial increase in deaths. But, hey, they’re not Americans so who cares?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Because Donald Trump takes multiple positions at the same time while lying about what he just said, it's easy to cherry pick comments of his to support a version of the wall you want. But his most consistent themes both during the campaign and post campaign is that the wall would be a tangible, difficult to cross barrier made of solid materials spanning the length of the border. He's famously criticized people for suggesting that what he wants or will achieve is anything less than this. You can find him saying otherwise because you can find Trump saying just about anything. You can even find Trump criticizing the exact kind of xenophobic rhetoric that is the beating essence of his politics.

“I'm much more humble than you would understand.”

“I have the best temperament or certainly one of the best temperaments of anybody that’s ever run for the office of president. Ever.”

“I’m the most successful person ever to run for the presidency, by far. Nobody’s ever been more successful than me.”

“I'm the least racist person you will ever interview.”

"Number one, I am the least anti-Semitic person that you’ve ever seen in your entire life. Number two, racism. The least racist person"

“I’m the best thing that’s ever happened to the Secret Service.”

"I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country."

“No one has done more for people with disabilities than me.”

"Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump."

"There's nobody who understands the horror of nuclear more than me."

"There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am."

"There's nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community and the CIA than Donald Trump,"

"There’s nobody that’s done so much for equality as I have"

"There's nobody that has more respect for women than I do,"

"I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me"

"I am going to save Social Security without any cuts. I know where to get the money from. Nobody else does ."

"Nobody respects women more than I do"

"And I was so furious at that story, because there's nobody that respects women more than I do,"

"Nobody respects women more than Donald Trump"

"She can't talk about me because nobody respects women more than Donald Trump,"

"Nobody has more respect for women than Donald Trump!"

"Nobody has more respect for women than I do."

"Nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody."

“Nobody reads the Bible more than me.”

"Nobody loves the Bible more than I do"

"Nobody does self-deprecating humor better than I do. It’s not even close"

“Nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world.”

"Nobody knows more about trade than me"

"Nobody knows the (visa) system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me."

"Nobody knows debt better than me."

"I think nobody knows the system better than I do"

"I hope all workers demand that their @Teamsters reps endorse Donald J. Trump. Nobody knows jobs like I do! Don’t let them sell you out!"

“I know more about renewables than any human being on earth.”

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do.”

"I know more about contributions than anybody"

"I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. Believe me. Than they will ever understand. Than they will ever understand."

"I know more about wedges than any human being that's ever lived"

"I know more about drones than anybody,"

"I know more about Cory than he knows about himself."

"I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president"

"It’s like the wheel, there is nothing better. I know tech better than anyone"

“I’m very highly educated. I know words; I have the best words.”

"I know some of you may think l'm tough and harsh but actually I'm a very compassionate person (with a very high IQ) with strong common sense"

"I watch these pundits on television and, you know, they call them intellectuals. They're not intellectuals," Trump told thousands of supporters in the swing state. "I'm much smarter than them. I think I have a much higher IQ. I think I went to a better college — better everything,"

"@ajodom60: @FoxNews and as far as that low-info voter base goes, I have an IQ of 132. So much for that theory. #MakeAmericaGreatAgain"

Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure,it's not your fault

“He’s been quite critical of you as you know. He’s attacked you for being ignorant,” Piers Morgan said to Trump. “Let’s do an IQ test,” Trump interrupted

"We can’t let these people, these so called egg-heads--and by the way, I guarantee you my IQ is much higher than theirs, alright. Somebody said the other day, ‘Yes, well the intellectuals–‘ I said, ‘What intellectuals? I’m smarter than they are, many of people in this audience are smarter than they are."

“You know, I’m, like, a smart person. I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years,” Trump told Fox News last December.

Trump says he has "one of the great memories of all time"

Asked on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” who he talks with consistently about foreign policy, Trump responded, “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things."

" ... I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!"

[_subgenius]

Is the OP assuming that "the wall" is being proposed as a coast to coast endeavor?

[_canpakes]

If we were serious about border security, I'd be more interested in better ways of screening ports of entry for bombs so that it would be impossible to ship a nuclear device to the U.S. in a truck or a shipping container without getting caught.

You don’t even want to look into this. It will be too depressing, especially considering how so many ‘patriotic’ Americans are being led by the nose to rant about a wall.

The fact that Trump ignores real threats in favor of vanity projects to appeal to a Base that he intentionally misleads should be all that anyone needs to know about his true intentions and how (un)important ‘the wall’ is on the scale of actual threats. But, as they say, you can lead a horse to water, ...

[_Jersey Girl]

As long as that trail is open, somebody from Mexico could head to the river on the Mexican side, float down it a ways, and then follow the trail up to the heart of the national park. If we want to create a physical barrier to prevent people from crossing the river into the United States, this trail needs to be closed.

If we don't close it, what's the point of building the wall elsewhere?

Proponents of building walls need to think through the implications of what it is they claim they want. Just sayin'.

Which is why the rest of my post said this:

What comes immediately to mind is that the area would be covered by drones and monitored.

But I can't know a thing that hasn't been made known.

God! He recently spoke about the plan for increased manpower, technology, and a see through steel slat wall structure.

You don't really care what Trump's says but how his supporters envision the plan---where exactly would you like his supporters to get their information from?

Thin air?

[_Jersey Girl]

If we were serious about border security, I'd be more interested in better ways of screening ports of entry for bombs so that it would be impossible to ship a nuclear device to the U.S. in a truck or a shipping container without getting caught.

Analytics this has already been discussed previously in this forum.

What he was talking about was building a "smart wall" one that included increased security using technology--ground sensors, drones, cameras (?)--increased manpower and he admitted that there are natural borders that don't require a wall. He also discussed a see through slat wall made of steel.

Notice that he moved towards exactly what Democrats were asking for.

If areas of the border are patrolled via technological means, and he gets an increase in manpower-----won't that allow for said increase in manpower to man border checkpoints where the drugs and crap are said to come into the United States?

I don't know if I am misunderstanding the point of your comments, but I get the impression you are trying to I dunno--trick his supporters here into tripping themselves up but at the same time, I think you aren't factoring in Trump's current statements where he did in fact move towards concessions to Democrats by including features (or finally naming them, who know?) that they already wanted.

I should probably hang back here until I see what it is you are after because it isn't at all clear to me.

I'm getting this "Ah Ha!" moment in the offing about to come any second and I honestly don't think it works well if that is your intention.

And no, I am not even close to being a Trump supporter.

[_MeDotOrg]

“I'm much more humble than you would understand.”

Well, you're certainly right there, Mr. President. Your humility is beyond human understanding.

[_Jersey Girl]

“I'm much more humble than you would understand.”

“I have the best temperament or certainly one of the best temperaments of anybody that’s ever run for the office of president. Ever.”

“I’m the most successful person ever to run for the presidency, by far. Nobody’s ever been more successful than me.”

“I'm the least racist person you will ever interview.”

"Number one, I am the least anti-Semitic person that you’ve ever seen in your entire life. Number two, racism. The least racist person"

“I’m the best thing that’s ever happened to the Secret Service.”

"I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country."

“No one has done more for people with disabilities than me.”

"Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump."

"There's nobody who understands the horror of nuclear more than me."

"There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am."

"There's nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community and the CIA than Donald Trump,"

"There’s nobody that’s done so much for equality as I have"

"There's nobody that has more respect for women than I do,"

"I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me"

"I am going to save Social Security without any cuts. I know where to get the money from. Nobody else does ."

"Nobody respects women more than I do"

"And I was so furious at that story, because there's nobody that respects women more than I do,"

"Nobody respects women more than Donald Trump"

"She can't talk about me because nobody respects women more than Donald Trump,"

"Nobody has more respect for women than Donald Trump!"

"Nobody has more respect for women than I do."

"Nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody."

“Nobody reads the Bible more than me.”

"Nobody loves the Bible more than I do"

"Nobody does self-deprecating humor better than I do. It’s not even close"

“Nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world.”

"Nobody knows more about trade than me"

"Nobody knows the (visa) system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me."

"Nobody knows debt better than me."

"I think nobody knows the system better than I do"

"I hope all workers demand that their @Teamsters reps endorse Donald J. Trump. Nobody knows jobs like I do! Don’t let them sell you out!"

“I know more about renewables than any human being on earth.”

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do.”

"I know more about contributions than anybody"

"I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. Believe me. Than they will ever understand. Than they will ever understand."

"I know more about wedges than any human being that's ever lived"

"I know more about drones than anybody,"

"I know more about Cory than he knows about himself."

"I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president"

"It’s like the wheel, there is nothing better. I know tech better than anyone"

“I’m very highly educated. I know words; I have the best words.”

"I know some of you may think l'm tough and harsh but actually I'm a very compassionate person (with a very high IQ) with strong common sense"

"I watch these pundits on television and, you know, they call them intellectuals. They're not intellectuals," Trump told thousands of supporters in the swing state. "I'm much smarter than them. I think I have a much higher IQ. I think I went to a better college — better everything,"

"@ajodom60: @FoxNews and as far as that low-info voter base goes, I have an IQ of 132. So much for that theory. #MakeAmericaGreatAgain"

Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure,it's not your fault

“He’s been quite critical of you as you know. He’s attacked you for being ignorant,” Piers Morgan said to Trump. “Let’s do an IQ test,” Trump interrupted

"We can’t let these people, these so called egg-heads--and by the way, I guarantee you my IQ is much higher than theirs, alright. Somebody said the other day, ‘Yes, well the intellectuals–‘ I said, ‘What intellectuals? I’m smarter than they are, many of people in this audience are smarter than they are."

“You know, I’m, like, a smart person. I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years,” Trump told Fox News last December.

Trump says he has "one of the great memories of all time"

Asked on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” who he talks with consistently about foreign policy, Trump responded, “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things."

" ... I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!"

My theory is that because he's a narcissist he has to tell you who and what he is because he lacks the insight to know that normal people demonstrate their qualities via their behavior and others label them in kind.

No he has to characterize himself because he doesn't know how normal people gain information about others and because he doesn't know how to demonstrate the qualities that he claims as his own.

He knows the words to the song but he doesn't know what the song means.

[_Jersey Girl]

This right here cracks me up.

“I'm much more humble than you would understand.”

He is a stranger to humility though I do think Pelosi just gave him a lesson. Even so, as he attempts to negotiate no matter the outcome, he will always see himself as having the upper hand.

His ego won't allow it any other way. Anything that puts him in an inferior position is felt as a narcissitic injury which is to be avoided at all costs.

Even at the cost of truth.