ACLU current email (Trump related)

[_Markk]

You don't stop those "people and conditions" by preventing people seeking refuge from them entering the country. People aren't their government's policies, leadership, resources, or international standing. We aren't Donald Trump nor are we culturally or genetically destined to be like Donald Trump.

This is doubly rich given that one of the main drivers of violence in Mexico that you are referring to is the United States's war on drugs. And guess who supports that?

You have no idea what you are talking about, you live in a completely different world.

Do you think if we opened the borders, and legalized heroin and other drugs it would some how be better, and the bad folks would become good folks and using the authors words the " ...kidnapping, extorting, torturing and murdering ..." would stop?

If you ever come down here give me a day to give you a tour of what the issues really are, all I need is a day. We can first go to Huntington Park and get you a new License and SS card, then take a trip to TJ and work our way up to LA.

There is a problem EA, and it is real.

[_EAllusion]

Do you think if we opened the borders, and legalized heroin and other drugs it would some how be better, and the bad folks would become good folks and using the authors words the " ...kidnapping, extorting, torturing and murdering ..." would stop?

Organized crime driving violence in Mexico is caused by prohibition on the legal sale and transport of drugs, yes. You say I don't know what I'm talking about while asserting this even though it's so well established that it's the conventional understanding of everyone involved.

Black market demand is what gives organized criminal activity the incentive to exist apart from the legal institutions that make up the legitimate economy. It's why you don't see a lot of organized crime violence around the sale of orange juice. It's also why you see very little organized crime around the sale of cigarettes and what you do see correlates exactly with the geographic distribution of high tobacco taxes.

There is a problem EAllusion, and it is real.

I assume this is like when you disagreed with standard economic theory by doing a video tour of homeless people. I'm sorry, but your "Hispanics are inherently dirtbags" hypothesis for explaining the state of violence in Mexico doesn't carry water.

[_Chap]

Do you think if we ... legalized heroin and other drugs it would some how be better, and the bad folks would become good folks and using the authors words the " ...kidnapping, extorting, torturing and murdering ..." would stop?

Well, if there was no longer a viable business possibility in the illegal supply of narcotics (because safe, clean supplies were legally available), then yes, certainly there would be an marked fall in the amount of violence on the part of the criminal groups who currently find that the illegal sale of narcotics is a very good way of making money.

I'm not saying that the legalising of narcotics is a simple issue, but I don't think any informed person believes that it would not lead to a huge reduction in the viability of the current very profitable illegal businesses involved in supplying narcotics.

[_EAllusion]

Do you think if we ... legalized heroin and other drugs it would some how be better, and the bad folks would become good folks and using the authors words the " ...kidnapping, extorting, torturing and murdering ..." would stop?

Well, if there was no longer a viable business possibility in the illegal supply of narcotics (because safe, clean supplies were legally available), then yes, certainly there would be an marked fall in the amount of violence on the part of the criminal groups who currently find that the illegal sale of narcotics is a very good way of making money.

I'm not saying that the legalising of narcotics is a simple issue, but I don't think any informed person believes that it would not lead to a huge reduction in the viability of the current very profitable illegal businesses involved in supplying narcotics.

It's not just that the manufacture, transport, and sale of narcotics is a important revenue stream for organized crime. It's that organized crime is the rational economic solution to meeting existing demand. If people who obey the law can't get it to you, then you have to turn to people and organizations that have expertise in disobeying the law. Organized crime is an economic solution to an economic problem. Drug prohibition gives incentive for organized crime to exist. Of course, once you have an organization that has expertise in disobeying the law and is filled with people willing to disregard the law, they might do things like resort to extra-legal means of achieving aims. You know, like killing people.

[_huckelberry]

What is incredible is that in one breath he describes the horrible people and conditions that plague Mexico...but also wants to condemn Trump for trying to stop those kinds of people and conditions from entering our country?

In my region it used to be they would stay in the labor camp for harvest and remain few in numbers. Now things have changed. There are many Hispanic families. They work a variety of jobs, support the local economy pay taxes buy homes and fix up the neighborhood. When the disaster will hit is anybodies guess.