The FU COVID Thread

[canpakes]

If a nurse lies profusely about vaccine effectiveness, then we really have to look at how vaccines are ultimately hurting their bottom line.

Or someone selling some product or service to hospitals …

[Some Schmo]

It occurs to me that I am in agreement with anti-vaxxers in one respect; I don't think we should make them get vaccinated any more. I am absolutely willing to let them kill themselves.

We've done all we can do. The correct information about the vaccine and its benefits is out there if you look for it. If people want to live idiotically, there's nothing anyone can do about that. I've been vaccinated, so I've done my part. Let's all go back to normal and let the people who want to die do so.

Let's get it over with, already.

[ajax18]

But nurses do not get paid more if the morgues are full. The logic here needs a bit more work. Also, the nurses do not get paid by the sick people, they get paid by the hospital, so we should probably work that into the logic string as well.

A little sensitive eh?

Are you a nurse?

Yes, nurses get paid when mortuaries are full. Hospitals being full and mortuaries being full are not mutually exclusive outcomes.

Nurses get paid by the hospital and sick people (or their delegates) pay the hospital. Full hospital = full billfold for a nurse.

Nurses have every bit the vested financial interest in a hospital being full of sick people as Moderna employees have in people taking the vaccine.

If a nurse lies profusely about vaccine effectiveness, then we really have to look at how vaccines are ultimately hurting their bottom line.

That,'s only true for free market medical. I get paid per patient. The staff gets paid per hour. Who do you think wants the office busy and who wants business slow and easy? Who wants the doors open on time and who drags their feet often fogetting to unlock them?

Most hospital workers aren't paid per patient. Most patients aren't paying out of pocket.

[Binger]

It occurs to me that I am in agreement with anti-vaxxers in one respect; I don't think we should make them get vaccinated any more. I am absolutely willing to let them kill themselves.

We've done all we can do. The correct information about the vaccine and its benefits is out there if you look for it. If people want to live idiotically, there's nothing anyone can do about that. I've been vaccinated, so I've done my part. Let's all go back to normal and let the people who want to die do so.

Let's get it over with, already.

Oh good. How interesting. Looks like the Canadian truckers are creating progress. And, it seems that there is some agreement that the mandates are not normal.

[ajax18]

Schmo the jig is up on Covid, as we see some of the most ardent supporters of the shutdowns among the laptop class like yourself starting to finally tire of it. You still have other tools in your arsenal to seize power and suspend civil rights. Global warming is the next crisis that will be used to justify a shutdown. At the very least, it's going to jack up shipping costs even more than what you're seeing now with COVID.

[K Graham]

Schmo the jig is up on Covid, as we see some of the most ardent supporters of the shutdowns among the laptop class like yourself starting to finally tire of it. You still have other tools in your arsenal to seize power and suspend civil rights. Global warming is the next crisis that will be used to justify a shutdown. At the very least, it's going to jack up shipping costs even more than what you're seeing now with COVID.

The jig is up on COVID?

Oh, right. Because he said he was sick and tired of the pandemic. Yes, we all are. I've been tired of it for two years, but I adapt and move on. Because being inconvenienced by something doesn't make it not real. A million Americans have already died from this virus, which is 200,000+ more than if you idiots hadn't protested so fervently against vaccines. Now because it is coming to an end you want to pretend it is because we've suddenly "seen the light" about what you've been saying all this time. Good God you're a useless piece of trash.

Vaccine mandates don't violate civil rights and they're entirely Constitutional.

Far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further them. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated, and communities of color hit hard by the disease.

Do vaccine mandates violate civil liberties? Some who have refused vaccination claim as much.

We disagree.

At the ACLU, we are not shy about defending civil liberties, even when they are very unpopular. But we see no civil liberties problem with requiring Covid-19 vaccines in most circumstances.

While the permissibility of requiring vaccines for particular diseases depends on several factors, when it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. The disease is highly transmissible, serious and often lethal; the vaccines are safe and effective; and crucially there is no equally effective alternative available to protect public health.

In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease.

Vaccine requirements also safeguard those whose work involves regular exposure to the public, like teachers, doctors and nurses, bus drivers and grocery store employees. And by inoculating people from the disease’s worst effects, the vaccines offer the promise of restoring to all of us our most basic liberties, eventually allowing us to return safely to life as we knew it, in schools and at houses of worship and political meetings, not to mention at restaurants, bars, and gatherings with family and friends.

Here’s why civil liberties objections to Covid vaccine mandates are generally unfounded.

Vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous, because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others.

While vaccine mandates are not always permissible, they rarely run afoul of civil liberties when they involve highly infectious and devastating diseases like Covid-19. Although this disease is novel, vaccine mandates are not. Schools, health care facilities, the U.S. military and many other institutions have long required vaccination for contagious diseases like mumps and measles that pose far less risk than the coronavirus does today.

In the United States alone, more than 39 million people have been infected with Covid-19 and more than 600,000 people have died. People with intellectual and physical disabilities are more likely to contract Covid-19, and they have much higher rates of hospitalization and death. Children’s hospitals in Georgia, Louisiana and other states are reporting high admissions of infected patients, and many are running out of beds.

Even though the F.D.A. and independent medical experts have found Covid-19 vaccines to be extremely safe and highly effective, a sizable portion of the eligible population has chosen not to be vaccinated. In this context, Covid-19 vaccine mandates — much like mask mandates — are public health measures necessary to protect people from severe illness and death. They are therefore permissible in many settings where the unvaccinated pose a risk to others, including schools and universities, hospitals, restaurants and bars, workplaces and businesses open to the public.

[Some Schmo]

I'd be willing to keep going with certain precautions if I thought everyone was on board with trying to protect themselves and everyone else, but a large percentage aren't on board. The people who are on board with self-preservation have already filtered themselves out by being vaccinated.

And despite all that, it continues to infect people. I think it's time to take heart in knowing that your risk is way lower than those who won't get vaccinated. Unfortunately, because there are so many dimwits in this country, COVID is here to stay. The morons win again by making everyone lose.

I think it's time to get on with things.

[Binger]

I'd be willing to keep going with certain precautions if I thought everyone was on board with trying to protect themselves and everyone else, but a large percentage aren't on board. The people who are on board with self-preservation have already filtered themselves out by being vaccinated.

And despite all that, it continues to infect people. I think it's time to take heart in knowing that your risk is way lower than those who won't get vaccinated. Unfortunately, because there are so many dimwits in this country, COVID is here to stay. The morons win again by making everyone lose.

I think it's time to get on with things.

Yep. Get on with things. If people choose they choose, if they choose not to decide they still have made a choice. Nothing more Canadian than that. Unlock and move on.

[Some Schmo]

I also think that unvaccinated people should be denied admittance to the hospital. If they don't trust the vaccine, why would they trust the hospital? Win/win.

[Binger]

I also think that unvaccinated people should be denied admittance to the hospital. If they don't trust the vaccine, why would they trust the hospital? Win/win.

JFC.