Proud To Call America Your Home?

[canpakes]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=157630There's no future with the populist bullshitters because there is no actual "there" there, just criticism of what others think or believe or do or vote or participate in the meaningless machine of society. And it's easy to imagine there is meaning and purpose in just opposing their nihilism through critic or absurdity. Why not? Nothing matters.

QFT.

[Gadianton]

I agree with you concerning the political hijacking of the education system and the great majority media sources. The good news

^^^ here's where you said it.

On a scale of 1 - 10, with 10 being absolute certainty, how much to you believe what you wrote in this sentence?

[honorentheos]

You know, if I hadn't seen the heading, I would have sworn that is the graph showing distribution of wealth between the generations.

This is a severely underrated comment, by the way. Hat tip, Dean Robber. Succinct yet comprehensive.

[Res Ipsa]

From a Statista poll (linked below): Americans on being proud to live in the United States in 2022, by generation.

Baby Boomers (born 1946-1964) - 73%

Gen X (born 1965-1980)- 54%

Millenials - (born 1981-1996) - 36%

Gez Z (born 1997-2012) - 16%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/135 ... w%20source

Only 16 percent of Americans that were born between 1997 and 2012 (Gen Z) are proud to live in America. Wow!

Your thoughts on why this is the case?

Why do you say wow? The Marxist Left has been trying to destroy this country for over 50 years. They have hijacked the education system, the press, and social media. The younger generation feels that they are a bunch of racist, homophobic, depressing white supremacists who never should have been born. And the Left, knowing that when there are no Americans, there will be no America as we know it, has slowly plotted to destroy the American Dream. 

LOL! Funny how we get these periodic hit and run accounts who all use VPNs and parrot Atlantic Mike. Imagine being so obsessed with an obscure message board. Sounds rather cultish.

[Res Ipsa]

From a Statista poll (linked below): Americans on being proud to live in the United States in 2022, by generation.

Baby Boomers (born 1946-1964) - 73%

Gen X (born 1965-1980)- 54%

Millenials - (born 1981-1996) - 36%

Gez Z (born 1997-2012) - 16%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/135 ... w%20source

Only 16 percent of Americans that were born between 1997 and 2012 (Gen Z) are proud to live in America. Wow!

Your thoughts on why this is the case?

Hi Ceebs. I don't cite Statista polls because Statista isn't a polling organization. It compiles and displays information from over 20,000 sources. To get the actual source of the data, you have to create and account and give Statista an e-mail address and phone number. I'm not willing to do that. Without knowing who took any given poll and the methodology they used, there is who way to evaluate the reliability of the reported result.

[honorentheos]

From a Statista poll (linked below): Americans on being proud to live in the United States in 2022, by generation.

Baby Boomers (born 1946-1964) - 73%

Gen X (born 1965-1980)- 54%

Millenials - (born 1981-1996) - 36%

Gez Z (born 1997-2012) - 16%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/135 ... w%20source

Only 16 percent of Americans that were born between 1997 and 2012 (Gen Z) are proud to live in America. Wow!

Your thoughts on why this is the case?

Hi Ceebs. I don't cite Statista polls because Statista isn't a polling organization. It compiles and displays information from over 20,000 sources. To get the actual source of the data, you have to create and account and give Statista an e-mail address and phone number. I'm not willing to do that. Without knowing who took any given poll and the methodology they used, there is who way to evaluate the reliability of the reported result.

To be fair, though, the numbers are on trend even if the poll is unreliable. For example:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... atriotism/

I think there is a conversation to be had here, too. If "America" means different things to different people, which it does, and that meaning is less positive or shared among Americans as time progresses, I think we have a serious issue on our hands. Why? Because the concept of America is all we have to unite us. We are too diverse, pluralistic, and ever changing to be able to fall back on shared history, religion, or the other foundations found in most other countries. Right-leanjng folks use this to try and assert white Christian power structures as the glue that needs reapplied, failing to see how that wasn't a feature but a flaw in the system. I've said elsewhere that the genius of the Constitution was more than political - it was the sanctification of what it stood for that likely made the American experiment successful. That it is flawed - extremely so in how it excluded women, unlanded, and slaves among others - is often a point were the postmodern critique can lead to not only desanctification but even vilification of what it "America" represents. But then what? I'd argue the need is to build on the promise, to correct the flaws, and maintain the mundane sanctity of that flawed beginning. But that's more of a conversation opening position than something set in stone.

[huckelberry]

It is a change in style. It is a bit funny to be proud of where you were born. I was born in Chicago. Is that my noteworthy quality or accomplishment that I should be proud of? Perhaps related but said quite differently I might say I am proud of the positive accomplishments of America and proud of the hope for improvement it represents. I am appreciative of the success that American industry and cooperation has created. My respect for America says we can and will do better. Now in a past time those second comments might be by convention and habit be put together to say I am proud to be an American. After all we were major player winning ww2.

People have since noticed that there might be reasons why people in other places sometimes see American pride as ugly. Perhaps it makes more sense to love America instead of using it for personal boasting.

[huckelberry]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=157630

There's no future with the populist bullshitters because there is no actual "there" there, just criticism of what others think or believe or do or vote or participate in the meaningless machine of society. And it's easy to imagine there is meaning and purpose in just opposing their nihilism through critic or absurdity. Why not? Nothing matters.
QFT.

Honorentheos, You present a well reasoned discussion. It is worth reading, worth considering but there is a possibility that the poster of the clichéd right wing propaganda will not bother to read and respond to it.

[Res Ipsa]

Hi Ceebs. I don't cite Statista polls because Statista isn't a polling organization. It compiles and displays information from over 20,000 sources. To get the actual source of the data, you have to create and account and give Statista an e-mail address and phone number. I'm not willing to do that. Without knowing who took any given poll and the methodology they used, there is who way to evaluate the reliability of the reported result.

To be fair, though, the numbers are on trend even if the poll is unreliable. For example:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... atriotism/

I think there is a conversation to be had here, too. If "America" means different things to different people, which it does, and that meaning is less positive or shared among Americans as time progresses, I think we have a serious issue on our hands. Why? Because the concept of America is all we have to unite us. We are too diverse, pluralistic, and ever changing to be able to fall back on shared history, religion, or the other foundations found in most other countries. Right-leanjng folks use this to try and assert white Christian power structures as the glue that needs reapplied, failing to see how that wasn't a feature but a flaw in the system. I've said elsewhere that the genius of the Constitution was more than political - it was the sanctification of what it stood for that likely made the American experiment successful. That it is flawed - extremely so in how it excluded women, unlanded, and slaves among others - is often a point were the postmodern critique can lead to not only desanctification but even vilification of what it "America" represents. But then what? I'd argue the need is to build on the promise, to correct the flaws, and maintain the mundane sanctity of that flawed beginning. But that's more of a conversation opening position than something set in stone.

Great points of substance, honor. I'll also throw the question of whether "pride" means different things to different people. If younger folks associate "pride" with hubris or jingoism, the increased negativity is completely understandable. That's one reason I'd really like to see the actual poll. For all I know, it's a push poll by the RNC for fund-raising purposes. I think the trend is likely correct, but I'm skeptical about the magnitude. The way the question is worded and what preceded the question is critical to understanding the result.

[Some Schmo]

It's easy to see American citizens losing their sense of pride in our country when we elected such a moron and despot to be our leader. There's no doubt a huge percentage of the population started to wonder about their fellow citizens, and not in a good way. Nobody had (realistic) positive motivations for electing the orange thug.

If a third of the country is only interested in "owning the libs" and is willing to let the country burn to do so, what exactly do we have to be proud about? We aren't united states.