Solnit decries sanewashing Trump

[Dr Exiled]

I watched about 15 to 20 mins of the video. The comic made some good observations about Trump, some funny ones. Trump is the entertainer and so is worried about ratings, obsessively so. The comic's observation about crowd size and how Trump took offense at the issue was one of the funny parts.

Laughing at someone's ideas/beliefs will probably generate offense in almost anyone, though. I don't think that observation is anything new. I still get taken aback, although less and less, when I tell people I grew up in Utah and I get the ridicule or laughter response.

[Kishkumen]

I just finished the video. Ms. Solnit, a writer of books about feminism, the environment, and politics, chastised the corporate media for not being hard enough on Trump and would like to have seen more prosecutions against him for conduct she is sure happened. She believes the corporate media doesn't fact check Trump enough and would fire most of the political reporters at the NY Times. She did however say she doesn't look to corporate media for her news (because she doesn't trust it apparently). However, she is a columnist for the Guardian. Maybe her disdain for corporate media only goes so far. Anyway, I don't think you'd agree with much of what she says.

Yeah, doubtless ceeboo wouldn't agree. By the way, plenty of people who write things American corporate media does not want to pay to support write for UK media. That's a fairly standard and unexceptionable move. Maybe you just weren't aware of that.

She is another of the reality police that seems upset because people don't agree with her learned opinion.

I guess you didn't understand what she said and decided to substitute your bile and resentment for educated people for a description of what transpired in the video.

[Kishkumen]

I had never heard of this person before. I googled her name, read her Wikipedia profile, and then I clicked on the video which I turned it off about ten seconds into her talking points. I found the guy hosting the video and the woman speaking utterly mundane and a little aggravating.

I think I have a low tolerance for poor presentation, unstructured YouTube lectures, and the lack of graphical interface. I believe this is because I’ve realized over time just how little post-lecture information not only stays with me, but stays with others as well. I expect people who want eyeballs to understand basic ‘TedX’ish’ presentation not only because I’m only capable of average attention and information retention, but I want good information to be quickly digestible by viewers who they’re trying to persuade.

OK. Fair enough. It was not a succinct, stylish presentation.

Whatever the case may be, I’m also sick to death of media AND consumers sanewashing content providers, entertainers, and public-facing officials. We’re absolutely in the Age of Manipulation (anyone get the reference?), and the only way is to not participate in that kind of relationship. But, people who may feel that way are just a drop in the ocean because, I suspect, life is hard or boring, and escapism is a nice diversion from everything. So. The insanity will continue.

Since about the fifth century BCE, we have been living in the age of rhetoric. Unless you want someone to dictate to you what reality is, you will have to put up with people trying to persuade you of what it is. At least you get to decide for yourself in your present situation.

[Kishkumen]

I tend to agree, Cam. The "discussion" at the link turned me off quickly as it didn't seem to be sharing information so much as a personal whine. That's fine if I'm out with a group and someone wants to vent about something bothering them. But it's not fine in an interview or presentation. I don't need to listen to someone go on for 15 minutes when the sentence, "I'm frustrated with media converting Trump's dribbling rants into coherent statements" makes the point.

Now I believe Josh Johnson made the same point as part of a comedy routine much more effectively and interestingly.

https://youtu.be/VJ64hXcNALI?t=800

Um, no. He is talking about something similar, but not the same. Yes, he is a lot funnier and easier to understand. But he is talking about Trump followers hearing what they want to hear, not media corporations making the contest what it isn't for the benefit of their bottom line.

[Kishkumen]

Laughing at someone's ideas/beliefs will probably generate offense in almost anyone, though. I don't think that observation is anything new. I still get taken aback, although less and less, when I tell people I grew up in Utah and I get the ridicule or laughter response.

Some beliefs are risible, and those beliefs deserve to be challenged and lampooned. The earth is not flat. Vaccines do not cause autism. Trump is not a competent statesman.

[Chap]

Laughing at someone's ideas/beliefs will probably generate offense in almost anyone, though. I don't think that observation is anything new. I still get taken aback, although less and less, when I tell people I grew up in Utah and I get the ridicule or laughter response.

Some beliefs are risible, and those beliefs deserve to be challenged and lampooned. The earth is not flat. Vaccines do not cause autism. Trump is not a competent statesman.

We need to distinguish between

The public sphere: Challenging and if useful lampooning are necessary and legitimate, since that way the undecided may be influenced against adopting the beliefs in question.

The private sphere: The best way to get people to loosen their hold on oddball beliefs is to ask them (politely, and with genuine interest) to help you to understand those beliefs, and the reasons for holding them. Direct challenge will only get them to tighten their grip on the beliefs in question.

[honorentheos]

I tend to agree, Cam. The "discussion" at the link turned me off quickly as it didn't seem to be sharing information so much as a personal whine. That's fine if I'm out with a group and someone wants to vent about something bothering them. But it's not fine in an interview or presentation. I don't need to listen to someone go on for 15 minutes when the sentence, "I'm frustrated with media converting Trump's dribbling rants into coherent statements" makes the point.

Now I believe Josh Johnson made the same point as part of a comedy routine much more effectively and interestingly.

https://youtu.be/VJ64hXcNALI?t=800

Um, no. He is talking about something similar, but not the same. Yes, he is a lot funnier and easier to understand. But he is talking about Trump followers hearing what they want to hear, not media corporations making the contest what it isn't for the benefit of their bottom line.

Maybe I take for granted most folks around here have more than a superficial understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the media ecosystem we enhabit and from which we consume information. The gentleman asking for examples helped push something like substance into it but it really was twenty minutes that could have been a sentence. Maybe for some folks it was news, I guess.

As for interjecting some Josh Johnson, I'd say the thread and by extension the board is all the better for it. So it was a bit tongue in cheek to say he made the same point more simply and with more wit. Guess I'll watch for my fat check to come in from the Trumpers then.

[Kishkumen]

Maybe I take for granted most folks around here have more than a superficial understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the media ecosystem we enhabit and from which we consume information. The gentleman asking for examples helped push something like substance into it but it really was twenty minutes that could have been a sentence. Maybe for some folks it was news, I guess.

Really nice, guy. I thought it would be interesting. If it was so obvious to you, maybe you would have not mixed it up with something it was not. Like the Josh Johnson video, which is great and funny, but not making the same point. A similar point? Sure. The same point? No.

As for interjecting some Josh Johnson, I'd say the thread and by extension the board is all the better for it. So it was a bit tongue in cheek to say he made the same point more simply and with more wit. Guess I'll watch for my fat check to come in from the Trumpers then.

But it isn't the same point. It is funny. Thanks for sharing it. I like Josh Johnson a lot and watch him on the Daily Show quite a bit. He is talented and really great. But it is not exactly the same point. Why you say you need for your "fat check" to come from the Trumpers is confusing. Clearly you didn't quite understand the video I posted. Maybe if it were a slick production with attractive young people that would help.

[Kishkumen]

We need to distinguish between

The public sphere: Challenging and if useful lampooning are necessary and legitimate, since that way the undecided may be influenced against adopting the beliefs in question.

The private sphere: The best way to get people to loosen their hold on oddball beliefs is to ask them (politely, and with genuine interest) to help you to understand those beliefs, and the reasons for holding them. Direct challenge will only get them to tighten their grip on the beliefs in question.

I agree. It is hard to discipline one's self to be careful about that online. It is much easier in person.

[honorentheos]

Maybe I take for granted most folks around here have more than a superficial understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the media ecosystem we enhabit and from which we consume information. The gentleman asking for examples helped push something like substance into it but it really was twenty minutes that could have been a sentence. Maybe for some folks it was news, I guess.

Really nice, guy. I thought it would be interesting. If it was so obvious to you, maybe you would have not mixed it up with something it was not. Like the Josh Johnson video, which is great and funny, but not making the same point. A similar point? Sure. The same point? No.

As for interjecting some Josh Johnson, I'd say the thread and by extension the board is all the better for it. So it was a bit tongue in cheek to say he made the same point more simply and with more wit. Guess I'll watch for my fat check to come in from the Trumpers then.

But it isn't the same point. It is funny. Thanks for sharing it. I like Josh Johnson a lot and watch him on the Daily Show quite a bit. He is talented and really great. But it is not exactly the same point. Why you say you need for your "fat check" to come from the Trumpers is confusing. Clearly you didn't quite understand the video I posted. Maybe if it were a slick production with attractive young people that would help.

Lol. Yep. I'm lucky I can dress myself.