Are we alone in the universe?

[canpakes]

Hi Ajax,

Given the sheer size of the universe, my guess is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. But, because of that size. The laws of physics that prevent faster than light travel, and the absence of evidence of intelligent life in the systems of the closest stars, I don’t think earth has been visited.

This.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The idea with extraterrestrial craft is basically that given enough energy you can create a bubble that is not subject to our laws of physics. That's why extraterrestrial craft are able to accelerate to MAC 45…

[Chap]

Hi Ajax,

Given the sheer size of the universe, my guess is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. But, because of that size. The laws of physics that prevent faster than light travel, and the absence of evidence of intelligent life in the systems of the closest stars, I don’t think earth has been visited.

Even assuming that at some time in the future it becomes possible to create vehicles which can safely transport living things at well over the speed of light (something contrary to the laws of physics as we currently understand them), there are further difficulties in assuming that it is remotely likely that our planet has been a destination for intelligent beings from far distant places in the universe:

1. My point about "why us?" still holds: why should these beings choose our planet to visit out of all the others in the universe?

But there is also this:

2. At the time the 'aliens in Area 51' notion grew up, it was assumed that the only way for beings elsewhere to establish effective contact with us (apart from sending radio messages that would take years to arrive and might not be comprehensible) would for them to take the risks of travelling to earth in person. Hence the stories of crashed spaceships and alien corpses in freezers. But some people are nowadays arguing (in my view rightly) against human trips to the (relatively!) nearby planet Mars on the grounds that it would be unethical to allow our fellow humans to take the huge risks involved in going far beyond the range of any possible rescue mission. The obvious solution has only been invented in recent years - send a complex and well-trained AI system instead. If that crashes on reaching its destination, no children are orphaned and no harrowing stories of the slow death of survivors need be imagined. Similarly, would we not expect highly advanced aliens to use such technology instead of taking the risks of coming in person? The current stories of alien visitations are so very 20th century!

[Doctor Steuss]

Even assuming that at some time in the future it becomes possible to create vehicles which can safely transport living things at well over the speed of light (something contrary to the laws of physics as we currently understand them), there are further difficulties in assuming that it is remotely likely that our planet has been a destination for intelligent beings from far distant places in the universe:

1. My point about "why us?" still holds: why should these beings choose our planet to visit out of all the others in the universe?

Definitely agree with the "why us?" I also think (although grammatically clunky): "How us?"

With all of the vastness of the universe, the likelihood that they would somehow be homed in on our little planetary system (amongst the septillion others -- and that's just the observable universe), at just the right moment, is so insanely small. It also assumes that they would be looking for a sign of intelligence that matched what we were outputting at the exact moment they were looking at us. Maybe instead of a type of wave, or broadcast signal (like we search for), they are looking for significant quantities of a hadron that we don't produce, because of a yet undiscovered technology.

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For fun: Taking that upper limit (septillion) -- if aliens were scanning a different planetary system every single second, it would take them 31.7 quadrillion years to look at every single one. There are 1,000,000 billions in each quadrillion. The universe itself is estimated to only be about 13.8 billion years old. The "Big Crunch" theory puts the final collapse of the universe back into a singularity in about 33 billion years from now.

[Res Ipsa]

Hi Ajax,

Given the sheer size of the universe, my guess is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. But, because of that size. The laws of physics that prevent faster than light travel, and the absence of evidence of intelligent life in the systems of the closest stars, I don’t think earth has been visited.

The idea with extraterrestrial craft is basically that given enough energy you can create a bubble that is not subject to our laws of physics. That's why extraterrestrial craft are able to accelerate to MAC 45 and the occupants of the vessel do not disintegrate. Granted, millions of light years is still a long way. If extra terrestrials were to visit the earth, I believe they would need portal technology. Nor do these craft seem to slow down depending on what medium they are passing through, whether that be air, water, or space. This bubble also helps explain the poor quality of most UFO photographs and videos.

And then one would have to explain why Republicans like Marco Rubio and Democrats like Kirsten Gillebrand, James Clapper, are pushing for at least some disclosure of what our government knows and has on extraterrestrial technology. And one also has to explain why someone like Mr. Elizondo would give up a sweet government career and pension just to inform the public. Why would they lie about this? The reason for not disclosing this makes sense to me in that Russia and China also are trying to reverse engineer extra terrestrial spacecraft. If the US government admits to what they have, they will lose a big advantage quickly. This is also why it's in their best interest to create a stigma that can cast doubt and damage the credibility of anyone who discloses this or believes it. They wouldn't even deny that our government has killed people without a trial because of fear of what they might disclose. There would also be severe economic consequences in the short term for all of us if the government were to disclose that yes, extra terrestrials have visited the earth.

Hi Ajax. I had to do a little bit of reading on the warp bubble theory of UFOlogy. It seemed to me to involve lots of hand waving, especially when it comes to the amount of energy required for interstellar travel. Estimates ranged from more than the total mass/energy content of the universe to needing Type III Civilization.

A Type III civilization (galactic) is able to capture all the energy emitted by its galaxy, and every object within it, such as every star, black hole, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

With the near godlike power of all the energy of a galaxy behind them, why would they be skulking around a primitive planet like earth? They certainly wouldn’t waste such power zipping around in our atmosphere when more mundane techniques of production would do.

As for why people ask more disclosure, who knows? People believe in all sorts of things. That includes whistle blowers that could be delusional or narcissistic enough to make things up for the attention.

Didn’t we just have a dump of information from the Air Force or other armed service within the last few years? It seems that, when it comes to UFOs, no amount of disclosure can ever be enough. And, to the extent that the explanation for something people see relates to national security (weapons, aircraft, etc.), some information understandably won’t be released for decades.

As for Russia and China trying to “reverse engineer” extra-terrestrial craft, that would require them to have an extra-terrestrial craft in the first place. What is the evidence that any government has an actual alien spacecraft that they are trying to replicate?

All you’ve got here is a pure conspiracy theory. You’ve invented a whole elaborate story to “explain” something that needs no explanation. But it is ironic that you can promote this conspiracy theory at the same time that you dismiss an actual conspiracy to traffic under-age girls for sex. There’s real evidence for that one, yet you dismiss it as a media hoax.

[Gadianton]

very different thread because this issue does not hold the same partisan boundaries that exists in most every other issue. And to prove it to you, I'm going to agree with Barack Hussein Obama.

It's transparently obvious that you'd be into UFOs because UFO/disclosure is largely a right-wing phenomena. Every "bro"-cast on the internet believes in UFOs. Joe Rogan will be first to explain to you how scalar waves produce anti-gravity so that they can get here. Breitbart is between a rock and a hard place because Obama has a very special roll. Conspiracy mongers have taken over the government but yet, no disclosure, on anything. The only conclusion: the deep state must be more powerful than we ever imagined! We need more authoritarianism to combat it! Well, who is the leader of the deep state? Obama. Since 95% of your party believes that Area 51 hangers are filled with crashed saucers, and since Obama controls the deep state -- who would be in the best position to speak as to whether there are aliens or not? Obama has a huge amount of credibility in this regard by your own logic. He'd be the guy to listen to and psychoanalyze.

The Infographics Show has the most plausible scenarios for how they could be real. More than sketchy, I won't be convinced until I see it myself but I still look up when I cross the desert, so I haven't written off the possibility.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[Limnor]

The only conclusion: the deep state must be more powerful than we ever imagined!

Believe it!

I was on Nimitz in 2004 with Fravor. So I tend to separate “internet UFO culture” from “weird things pilots report.”

[ajax18]

Even assuming that at some time in the future it becomes possible to create vehicles which can safely transport living things at well over the speed of light (something contrary to the laws of physics as we currently understand them), there are further difficulties in assuming that it is remotely likely that our planet has been a destination for intelligent beings from far distant places in the universe:

1. My point about "why us?" still holds: why should these beings choose our planet to visit out of all the others in the universe?

Definitely agree with the "why us?" I also think (although grammatically clunky): "How us?"

With all of the vastness of the universe, the likelihood that they would somehow be homed in on our little planetary system (amongst the septillion others -- and that's just the observable universe), at just the right moment, is so insanely small. It also assumes that they would be looking for a sign of intelligence that matched what we were outputting at the exact moment they were looking at us. Maybe instead of a type of wave, or broadcast signal (like we search for), they are looking for significant quantities of a hadron that we don't produce, because of a yet undiscovered technology.

-------------
For fun: Taking that upper limit (septillion) -- if aliens were scanning a different planetary system every single second, it would take them 31.7 quadrillion years to look at every single one. There are 1,000,000 billions in each quadrillion. The universe itself is estimated to only be about 13.8 billion years old. The "Big Crunch" theory puts the final collapse of the universe back into a singularity in about 33 billion years from now.

From an LDS Christian perspective, It is by Jesus Christ that the worlds are and were created. God is not only the God of this world but the God of the multiverse. So extraterrestrials are taught the same Christian gospel as we are. Therefore it stands to reason they would desire to visit the world where Jesus was born, walked, talked, died, and was resurrected.

[ajax18]

It's transparently obvious that you'd be into UFOs because UFO/disclosure is largely a right-wing phenomena.

You obviously haven't watched the age of disclosure. Harry Reid, Kirsten Gillebrand, James Clapper etc., these are not right wing politicians. Nobody pushed for disclosure more than Harry Reid.