do I understand the definition of a woman?

[Jersey Girl]

TWO days ago I told you on this very thread that I was ILL. You can't recall what you read TWO freaking days ago and you think the problem is me.

Watching you twirl around in an intellectual haze is frustrating to normal people who are attempting to communicate with you much less someone who is recovering from an illness.

The threads you are on don't go long because you are challenging the collective. They go long because you can't keep on track for more than 1-2 posts and then before resolving an exchange you throw more crap into the mix.

Sheesh.

LOL…Love you Jersey Girl..have a nice night

so why should you a care ~Markk

[doubtingthomas]

You must know more about this than me, and must have a driving point, so let me know what that is and please do expand on my understanding of this disease.

I honestly don't know much, that is why I am asking you to explain it. Some women with Androgen insensitivity don't have an uterus. So can you explain it.

[honorentheos]

Interesting answer. I agree that the answer to the question about what a couple might do is complicated with many variables. But my question had asked if one of those was having a penis or vagina. Let's draw attention to something that showed up in a few different ways in your response:

Depending on the roles, current commitments, excepted responsibilities would all need to be weighed, discussed, and then decided by the couple if a non selfish decision were to be made. Men and women are certainly different and certain things might fall into your question depending on the person,their personalities, how they were raised, what culture they belong to demands.

In your opinion culture demands something that may influence this. Why? Do those demands require a person have a penis rather than a vagina? Like a dress? When you speak of roles in a couple, do you mean something that requires having a vagina? a penis?

Hi Markk -

You apparently didn't care to answer the above but I must insist. Is there something about having a penis or a vagina that is necessary to the cultural demands or roles brought up in this example?

[Markk]

You must know more about this than me, and must have a driving point, so let me know what that is and please do expand on my understanding of this disease.

I honestly don't know much, that is why I am asking you to explain it. Some women with Androgen insensitivity don't have an uterus. So can you explain it.

Women can’t get it, only men can…women can only be carriers. CFR that women can get it please.

[Markk]

Interesting answer. I agree that the answer to the question about what a couple might do is complicated with many variables. But my question had asked if one of those was having a penis or vagina. Let's draw attention to something that showed up in a few different ways in your response:

In your opinion culture demands something that may influence this. Why? Do those demands require a person have a penis rather than a vagina? Like a dress? When you speak of roles in a couple, do you mean something that requires having a vagina? a penis?

Hi Markk -

You apparently didn't care to answer the above but I must insist. Is there something about having a penis or a vagina that is necessary to the cultural demands or roles brought up in this example?

Culture doesn’t demand whether a person has a penis or or vagina, any more that it demands a nose or an ear. Culture puts demands on roles of people, men, women, children, races, and even things like religion. If you have a point here, please make it.

Thanks

[honorentheos]

Hi Markk -

You apparently didn't care to answer the above but I must insist. Is there something about having a penis or a vagina that is necessary to the cultural demands or roles brought up in this example?

Culture doesn’t demand whether a person has a penis or or vagina, any more that it demands a nose or an ear. Culture puts demands on roles of people, men, women, children, races, and even things like religion. If you have a point here, please make it.

Thanks

So far we seem to be on the same page. Culture puts demands on roles...and you included concepts such as men and women in that. But you also said culture doesn't necessarily have to do with someone having a penis or vagina. There's a space between the biological and the cultural in your dismissal above. Maybe we can agree to call the demands of culture, "norms"?

So, let's try again.

Markk wrote: Depending on the roles, current commitments, excepted responsibilities would all need to be weighed, discussed, and then decided by the couple if a non selfish decision were to be made. Men and women are certainly different and certain things might fall into your question depending on the person,their personalities, how they were raised, what culture they belong to demands.

honorentheos wrote: In your opinion culture demands something that may influence this. Why? Do those demands require a person have a penis rather than a vagina? Like a dress? When you speak of roles in a couple, do you mean something that requires having a vagina? a penis?

Going back to the dress example, we agreed that having a vagina isn't a requirement for wearing a dress. And apparently we're open minded enough to not care who chooses to wear one. While we danced around it, there is certainly a cultural norm in western civilization that might push back against that but what's doing the pushing is a norm, not a biological or physiological necessity.

So now we're looking at couples, roles, cultural norms, and asking a parallel question to the more simple question about the dress. Does having a penis vs a vagina matter when it comes to roles and expectations in this scenario?

[honorentheos]

What's a woman?

I'm reminded of the perennial question: "What is art?" Though difficult to define, the short answer is that art is that which society recognizes as art. Needless to say, the designation is entirely contextual.

Approaching it that way, a woman is that which society recognizes as woman. Which is why there's such a tempest over the definition. Like the term marriage, some folks want in, some folks want out, while others want to build barriers around the term.

Art is a form of self expression.

I disagree. Art is not just an act of expression but also of reception. I mean, sure some people have artistic outlets they use to express themselves. But a person can engage in creating what they wish but aesthetic is more than just expression. One of the questions I found interesting in neuroscience had to do with if there is a universal, biological basis for a shared sense of aesthetics. That's not clear, and some things like music clearly demand early exposure in life to find certain sounds and types of music pleasing.

[doubtingthomas]

I honestly don't know much, that is why I am asking you to explain it. Some women with Androgen insensitivity don't have an uterus. So can you explain it.

Women can’t get it, only men can…women can only be carriers. CFR that women can get it please.

Can get what?

I am asking you to explain Androgen insensitivity.

A person with androgen insensitivity is a man (genetically) with female genitalia.

[Markk]

Culture doesn’t demand whether a person has a penis or or vagina, any more that it demands a nose or an ear. Culture puts demands on roles of people, men, women, children, races, and even things like religion. If you have a point here, please make it.

Thanks

So far we seem to be on the same page. Culture puts demands on roles...and you included concepts such as men and women in that. But you also said culture doesn't necessarily have to do with someone having a penis or vagina. There's a space between the biological and the cultural in your dismissal above. Maybe we can agree to call the demands of culture, "norms"?

So, let's try again.

Markk wrote: Depending on the roles, current commitments, excepted responsibilities would all need to be weighed, discussed, and then decided by the couple if a non selfish decision were to be made. Men and women are certainly different and certain things might fall into your question depending on the person,their personalities, how they were raised, what culture they belong to demands.

honorentheos wrote: In your opinion culture demands something that may influence this. Why? Do those demands require a person have a penis rather than a vagina? Like a dress? When you speak of roles in a couple, do you mean something that requires having a vagina? a penis?

Going back to the dress example, we agreed that having a vagina isn't a requirement for wearing a dress. And apparently we're open minded enough to not care who chooses to wear one. While we danced around it, there is certainly a cultural norm in western civilization that might push back against that but what's doing the pushing is a norm, not a biological or physiological necessity.

So now we're looking at couples, roles, cultural norms, and asking a parallel question to the more simple question about the dress. Does having a penis vs a vagina matter when it comes to roles and expectations in this scenario?

Too many variables, give me a specific example.

[Markk]

Women can’t get it, only men can…women can only be carriers. CFR that women can get it please.

Can get what?

I am asking you to explain Androgen insensitivity.

A person with androgen insensitivity is a man (genetically) with female genitalia.

LOL…CFR…it is a man without the proper male hormones… and therefore have underdeveloped male genitalia…No female genitalia…in no case do they have things like ovaries and an uterus.

I have explained it generally…you said you don’t know much about it, so t least read th e link I gave you…I am a carpenter not a rare disease guru, if I am wrong here please correct me.

Do you know that maybe 3 or 4 thousand males have this disease in the US…again a rare disease….you obviously are trying to make a point so please cut to the chase and tell me what a rare disease that affects the natural growth of the of male genitalia, has to do anything with the definition of a woman.

Area you saying that a biological male, who has a rare disease that limits the growth of their genitalia can identify as a female…yes they can and they do…biological males can decide to identify as a female becasue of this disease. Is that what you are trying to say?