Can Our Democracy Survive This?

[_Gunnar]

Majax is an incorrigible bigot who thinks that white people are inherently superior to all other races and deserve to rule over all "lesser" races simply because they are white.

[_moksha]

I mean, it's not as if he just posts random stuff he finds off some alt-right blog simply because he likes the sound of it, is it?

I get it. It's like some sort of conservative Zen koan, such as if a grizzly bear is in the woods passing a log-sized feces, does it make a sound, right?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is a good article out of Chicago:

If Trump pursued the politics of resentment in courting white, working-class voters and their rural cousins, Democrats succumbed to what I call "the politics of righteousness" in overlooking their concerns and underestimating their power. By righteousness I mean the tendency of the Democratic Party to assume ownership of the moral high ground whenever cultural values and social norms are at issue in American politics — and to presume that those who disagree are, as Hillary Clinton put it, "a basket of deplorables."

The rest of the article is a nuanced piece on historical politics and morality.

Good stuff.

And highly irrelevant.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about with regards to communicating positions and gaining an advantage when it comes to the polls. Articles like these are extremely ineffective at winning political converts, or energizing a base.

What is more effective politically? This:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e1/30/df/e130df9047dda46b9973dd8bf0db9c76.jpg

Or the wordy piece most people would never bother to click on in the first place?

- Doc

[_honorentheos]

Glad I read that meme. Guess we can all forget the things Thatcher said about gays because she voted this one time in the '60's.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Glad I read that meme. Guess we can all forget the things Thatcher said about gays because she voted this one time in the '60's.

My point exactly. Truth and information, in this day and age are irrelevant. Positioning is the only thing that matters and the only thing voters care to notice because they're inundated with information.

The Alt Right figured it out. Now the Democrats better figure it out or we're getting a Reagan redux for the next 8-12 years.

- Doc

[_Maksutov]

From the link:

A vietnam veteran was denied disability even though he had lost his leg at the hip in battle. Military pensions apparently did not contain a cost of living increase and his pension was now little more than $250/month. No help from the welfare office, even when he showed a copious number of deskjobs he'd applied for unsuccessfully.

If the veteran has a condition due to a service-related disability it's covered fully. So Majax is either uninformed, lying, or the vet he's speaking of can't be bothered to go to the VA to get the treatment he earned. The veteran can appeal any decisions made by the VA, and has a right to be seen by a medical doctor at the VA's expense throughout the appellate process.

Also, a service-related disability pay does, indeed, receive a cost of living adjustment.

But, let's say the vet is roundly the subject of discrimination there are veteran service organizations that will link him up with pro-bono lawyers to sue the ever living **** out of the VA.

That said, Majax himself opted out of the insurance. That was his choice. He gambled and he lost. So, I'm not sure what he's griping about? Market forces, of which he fully supports apparently, dictated the cost of his care. He should be crapping himself with glee that he was a part of the market economy. What's the problem?

- Doc

Doc is correct.

There is a lot of bad information out there about veterans and their benefits and the VA itself. Not exactly a defender of the VA, but I did give them ten years of my life and I know what they're contending with. They have mostly great clinicians and mostly crappy upper management. They are affected powerfully by market forces, scarcity, regulations, many things. They struggle with all of it. If Majax truly wants to understand what happens within VA, he/she needs to include Inspector General reports and Congressional hearings in their reading.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

... he/she.

Mak,

Majax is a he. He's the White Nationalist/pro-Genocide Ajax that was called out for posting on Stormfront. He came back as Maxine Waters with a dog shyt parody of a Black female politician. We created the portmanteau of the two usernames.

- Doc

[_Maksutov]

Radical tribalism is unfortunately on the rise. I think part of the problem is that we have so many sources for news we pick the ones we like that usually tell us what we want to hear. This means for most they only get one narrative, and usually one that is wrong and radical. One of the other big problems is fake news and Putin pushing this to inspire radical tribalism in Europe and the US to destabilize these areas for his groups benefit.

I'm not sure democracy is ready for the internet. People are mostly ignorant and easily manipulated by those who are not friends to democracy. I know people who get on the internet and then tell me all sorts of things you would think they should know is not true. The internet is wonderful for all the good information you can find in seconds, but it also means every nut job and more importantly, groups who want to manipulate the population, can get their message out. I'm not sure what the solution is, if one exists that allows democracy to survive long term.

I agree completely.

The internet has simultaneously revealed the best and the worst in human beings. Our best being our curiosity and desire to learn, and our willingness to share information with others, as well as our willingness to assist others. Our worst being our gullibility, the wiring of our brains that leaves us susceptible to believe falsehoods, engaging in malicious behavior, and demonizing other groups.

We do live in interesting times, which does feel like a curse right now.

This really is a fascinating subject and I'm glad you raised it. It may have many facets. Is the internet ready for democracy? Is democracy ready for the internet? We have seen challenges to religion from the web, I suppose all other institutions will receive similar attention. I wonder about developing nations that are exposed to the internet before they have created any protections for its consumers, how it can be manipulated for totalitarian purposes, etc. What happens when the backfire and Dunning-Kruger effects are magnified by conscious and organized manipulators for whatever ends? And so on.

[_Maksutov]

... he/she.

Mak,

Majax is a he. He's the White Nationalist/pro-Genocide Ajax that was called out for posting on Stormfront. He came back as Maxine Waters with a dog shyt parody of a Black female politician. We created the portmanteau of the two usernames.

- Doc

I understood that. I remember the Stonewall Jackson icon. I'm just putting a little liberating gender fluidity on our racially conscious friend.

[_beastie]

This really is a fascinating subject and I'm glad you raised it. It may have many facets. Is the internet ready for democracy? Is democracy ready for the internet? We have seen challenges to religion from the web, I suppose all other institutions will receive similar attention. I wonder about developing nations that are exposed to the internet before they have created any protections for its consumers, how it can be manipulated for totalitarian purposes, etc. What happens when the backfire and Dunning-Kruger effects are magnified by conscious and organized manipulators for whatever ends? And so on.

It's a new world, eh?

I think that the posters on this thread who are dismissing these concerns are not carefully considering the future ramifications. Today it was the Democrats who bore the brunt of these new demons. Tomorrow it may be the republicans. These concerns are serious and should be nonpartisan. And, as you point out, the concerns are world-wide, not limited to the US election which served the purpose of demonstrating the concerns.

I really have no idea what to expect.