Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[Morley]

Do these tariffs look fair, or unfair? Why? On a side not I head on the radio today that Japan has a 600% tariff on our rice....is that fair, that we buy their cars but we can't really sell them our rice?

The posted tariffs that other countries supposedly impose look like numbers that have been extracted from someone's bum. You're really going to with these numbers? Every country, territory, and small island on Earth imposes at least a 10% tariff on the US? These numbers look manufactured.

[canpakes]

Well, you for got the rest of your paragraph that continues with context. I interpret the $6 to $4 dollar split as leading to the approaching a 750+ billion dollar as being good in your post. Here it is, again, in full context. If I am mistaken with your opinion, is the approaching 1 trillion dollar trade deficit good, or bad....please do clarify it?

”If I recall correctly, US trade balances out at around $6 out for every $4 in. It’s a pretty reasonable split. The ‘deficit’ side is so large because of the huge amount of trade overall, and shows that our economy is quite strong, with an expected amount of consumption due to Americans having sufficient resources to do so.”

The other portion of that paragraph only serves to illustrate why our deficit appears to be so big at any moment. The dollar amount of trade that the US is part of is so large that any deviation from an exact 50/50 split leaves a number that appears huge, in relative terms.

If that 60/40 split reversed itself on the regular every 6 months, that dollar amount would look scary in any given month, but in and of itself be relatively meaningless with respect to the long term trend, or whatever impact it has on our economy.

Are you following with that?

See what I just wrote above... is the deficiet good, or bad? If as you claim you did not mean the "large" high deficit was good....what is it then. Reasonably good, reasonably bad,...what?

It’s neither, in and of itself. I stated earlier that trade deficits are not inherently good or bad. I’d rather look at what the deficit stems from and what the long term trend or accumulation is. On the face of it I’d rather see it not continue to represent an ever-increasing percentage relative to GDP, but that also depends upon what goods and services are part of that equation.

A trade deficit is, weirdly enough, part of our increased standard of living. Over the last few decades, there have been no electronics that you own - as one example - that could be more affordable if produced in this country. It’s why there’s not one television manufactured in the US any more. Yet, everyone has a flat screen TV these days, probably several, and they’re all much less expensive adjusted for inflation than was ever the case (somewhat related, cellphones are the most ubiquitous device on earth today; 4 decades ago only a few hundred folks owned one). The same argument goes for clothing, and common household goods, and probably most of the tools you use every day. Some smart folks argue that even autos are generally a better value today than 4 decades ago even after factoring in inflation, given their features and improved reliability, but that claim seems a bit more complex to unpack.

The US is in a strong export position with things like financial services, aircraft, oil and soybeans. Should we divert our manufacturing efforts and manpower to making plastic bowls, water pumps, cheap sneakers and Squishmallows? Do you realistically think that such a refocus will provide the sorts of jobs and wages that will support a healthy middle class? What appropriate wages would be offered? And how would the tariff-induced dramatic increase in the costs of simple goods support your aim? How do tariffs help Americans with the cost of healthcare, childcare, transportation and housing - the things that are actually crushing the middle class? They don’t, do they?

And through all of this, the question remains not if our deficit is ‘good’ or ‘bad’, but if tariffs are going to do the two things that you seem to think they will: (1) ‘fix’ the deficit (assuming that deficits are always ‘bad’), and (2) transform the US into a manufacturing powerhouse (assuming that it is not already a manufacturing powerhouse). Aren’t those your claims? Correct me if not. But you’ve continued to dodge those conversations in trying to distract instead to the relatively meaningless question of “is the deficit bad?”, with the implication that somehow a tariff war will fix that. It probably won’t.

In simple terms, I don’t buy what appears to be your two-part assertion: ‘Deficits bad, therefore tariffs good’.

Case in point: for many years, the US has been a long term major supplier of soybeans to China. We hit a high point of providing 62% of China’s soybean imports in 2016-17, before suddenly and dramatically dropping the next year to 18% as a result of Trump’s first tariff war. Was that good for the US soybean industry and its farmers, and did losing that share of the soybean trade markedly improve our overall long term trade deficit trend?

[Doctor Steuss]

Heard and McDonald Islands Population: Zero.

I'm glad someone is finally putting a stop to penguins stealing American jobs.

ETA: Looking into this deeper. Trump gave a better deal to the Taliban than he did to Israel. Curiously, there seems to be one particular large country missing from this long list that includes a volcanic island that has less than 20 non-permanent residents who temporarily live there to maintain a metrological station.

[Jersey Girl]

Heard and McDonald Islands Population: Zero.

I'm glad someone is finally putting a stop to penguins stealing American jobs.

ETA: Looking into this deeper. Trump gave a better deal to the Taliban than he did to Israel. Curiously, there seems to be one particular large country missing from this long list that includes a volcanic island that has less than 20 non-permanent residents who temporarily live there to maintain a metrological station.

Oh did Markk post those tariff images? Does he know that some of the "countries" listed have NO HUMAN INHABITANTS?

[canpakes]

Heard and McDonald Islands Population: Zero.

I'm glad someone is finally putting a stop to penguins stealing American jobs.

ETA: Looking into this deeper. Trump gave a better deal to the Taliban than he did to Israel. Curiously, there seems to be one particular large country missing from this long list that includes a volcanic island that has less than 20 non-permanent residents who temporarily live there to maintain a metrological station.

Oh did Markk post those tariff images? Does he know that some of the "countries" listed have NO HUMAN INHABITANTS?

Yes, but that just proves that they aren’t importing any goods from us, and must be punished.

[Jersey Girl]

Oh did Markk post those tariff images? Does he know that some of the "countries" listed have NO HUMAN INHABITANTS?

Yes, but that just proves that they aren’t importing any goods from us, and must be punished.

Okay. I'll go have a word with the wildlife and see if I can sway them towards manufacturing. Maybe that'll move the needle a bit.

[Marcus]

Trump's presidency is a gish-gallop of stupid policies and stupid justifications for the stupid policies.

YES IT IS. Completely and totally.

[Markk]

The other portion of that paragraph only serves to illustrate why our deficit appears to be so big at any moment. The dollar amount of trade that the US is part of is so large that any deviation from an exact 50/50 split leaves a number that appears huge, in relative terms.

If that 60/40 split reversed itself on the regular every 6 months, that dollar amount would look scary in any given month, but in and of itself be relatively meaningless with respect to the long term trend, or whatever impact it has on our economy.

Are you following with that?

The paragraph is explaining why you stated, and I assumed believed that the deficiet was "reasonable." As I pointed out by Websters, which you recommended, reasonable, given the context of the paragraph is meant as a positive. You were defending a large deficit then and ironically now.

You stated...."A trade deficit is, weirdly enough, part of our increased standard of living"

Cakes, Yes it part of it, but no, the only growing "standard of living" is the 1%....those that make around 750K a year. The 60%, "middle class" earners is in decline, which is what this conversation is about. As I pointed out in previous posts, we are a point in history were the total earning power of the top 1% is greater that the earning power of the 60%. The standard of living for the middle class earners, which has always been a real strength for this country is in decline. Credit card debt is on a constant rise, and at record highs overall, from what I have read. I have 5 brothers and sisters, I'm a middle child. In my father was making around 7000k a year, my mother was a home maker. We were buying our home, we bought a brand new VW, and we had a station wagon he often wrenched on, but a okay car. We always had healthy three meals, new church and school clothing and shoes each year. and no credit card debt that I am aware of. I never remember my parents using a credit card, we always paid with cash or check. Were we middle class, I don't know, but we felt like it, and we lived in a very nice neighborhood of returned veterans living the same way.

My point, 7k a year is equal is around 65k a year, try to do that today with a family of 8. The standard of living for the "middle class" is in decline.


I keep asking you what the democratic alternative is to help "grow back" the middle class. Bidens plan included very high tariffs. One more time does the democratic caucus have a plan?



Tariff, if successful will balance the the trade, and help increase industrial strength and higher wages...yes that is my opinion. And if we lose a tariff war you are correct, but if we are successful it will.

In regard to China, and this is important to this conversation. Do you believe that they have our best interests, or any other nations best interests in mind?

But any way do the democrats have a plan?

[canpakes]

Markk, I understand your position. I just don’t agree that tariffs provide the solution that you claim they do. They’ll immediately impose greater costs across the board on consumables for every stressed middle-class family, if that’s who you’re concerned about, with absolutely no guarantee that any significant portion of those families will be able to locate your hoped-for but presently-nonexistent ‘good paying manufacturing jobs’ that are years down the road if they arrive at all, in extremely limited locations.

Meanwhile, you still have healthcare insurance, transportation, childcare and housing costs to contend with … if you are actually concerned with the viability of our middle class. I keep asking you to consider those. In turn, you keep dodging and harping on ‘what are the Democrats plans?’, knowing full well that plenty existed that addressed both manufacturing and the other 4 factors just mentioned. You rejected all of that when you cast your vote for Trump. So the question now becomes ‘what is the Republican plan’ to address these issues. Republicans are the only ones who can set policy right now, which you are fully aware of.

Did you vote for Trump while wringing your hands about the fate of the middle class, yet while also completely ignoring Republicans plans - or lack of plans - for the middle class? Or did you figure that making the middle class pay a new 25% tax on most of their consumables, to finance a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans, would do the trick?

And about those wealthiest Americans getting their tax cut at the cost of $4.5 trillion dollars over the next decade:

As I pointed out in previous posts, we are a point in history were the total earning power of the top 1% is greater that the earning power of the 60%.

Maybe you should think a bit about why that is the case, and how it relates to our struggling middle class.

[Jersey Girl]

From CNN today. Heard Island. Tell you what those Penguins are gonna by golly pay up, too.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/03/us/video ... iff-digvid