Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Jersey Girl]

Here’s more information on this variant found in the UK. It’s got some potentially bad news, but we don’t know that much yet. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1340 ... 76224.html

The vaccine is already outdated, and it just barely got here yesterday. That's the stupidity of "Warp Speed" vaccine making. On the other hand, our own stupidity of imagining we are "free" and doing whatever we want consequences be damned, appears to me to show Mother Nature is just going to do her thang and thin out humans......it sounds cold, but our intelligence is our own undermining as a species. We are spoiled rotten, and noW we are going to be rotten dead.

Philo Sofee you are simply mistaken. The clinical trails were done in real time while testing a vaccine's effect on a real virus that was mutating in real time. The virus has been mutating the whole entire time and probably long before we ever heard of it or scientists got their hands on it. It's been mutating throughout the clinical trial process so there is every reason to believe that those candidates who received the mRNA vaccines (or placebo) were exposed to multiple variants of the virus the number of which is mutations in the thousands.

Scientists have been recording and trying to keep up with the mutations this whole entire time and my guess is that they did so as soon as they got their hands on the genetic code for the virus--I'd say that was back in January time frame.

This vaccine is not a flu vaccine in that it's mechanism is different. But...you can think about it in much the same way. The flu vaccines are developed each season based on a prediction. I think we'll ultimately see the covid vaccines go the same route and become a yearly inoculation.

It is so important that we do our best to read, follow, and try to understand these developments. This isn't the first science vs. coronavirus rodeo. Science already had information regarding coronavirus. They got the genetic code for this one, decoded it, shoved the information through various scientific platforms and came up with a profile of the spike protein on the crown/corona of this fragile virus and developed a messenger/trainer that would teach your body how to meet the virus at the door of your body and destroy that spike protein before it has a chance to get in the door and start replicating itself.

I am not a scientist. I am not a health care professional. I'm doing my level best to understand things. These vaccines are a scientific miracle and I don't mind saying that Operation Warp Speed is a huge feather in the cap of the current administration although President is actually distracting the public with his raving from his single most important achievement.

Until we are vaccinated (if we choose to) keep in mind that the virus is fragile. It can be destroyed by simply scrubbing your hands and breaking it apart. So...wash your hands, wash your surfaces, wear your mask, try to stay out of public places, don't hang out for too long when you are out, protect your bubble as best you can, don't mix with other bubbles that are violating the aforementioned guidelines, and basically do what you need to do to keep this nasty thing away from you and yours.

We are not doomed. We are waiting for our turn and it's critical that we trust the science because it IS trustworthy.

[Jersey Girl]

Oh geez so RI already answered in much the same way.

From what I can tell the trials are not over. They simply reached a point of confidence where Pfizer and Moderna moved forward in seeking and obtaining FDA approval for EUA.

Like RI said, the vaccines are coming to us in waves. Pfizer the first, Moderna the second and then, once the needed information comes from the J&J and Astra Zeneca trials is available, we'll see those roll out as well. The administration is looking at using the DPA to assist Pfizer in getting out more doses in order to get more doses for the US on account of the fact that Pfizer is tasked with fulfilling um...pre-orders for other countries once the UK and the US got their orders filled.

Anyway what I am saying about the trials not being over is because researchers are still studying and recording outcomes and will do so well into the future and all the while tracking the mutations/variants as well as developing more methods of delivery for the vaccines already in place. Example: Pfizer, I believe it is, is developing a powdered version of it's vaccine which will eliminate the cold chain challenges that exist from lab to arm.

[Res Ipsa]

Oh geez so RI already answered in much the same way.

From what I can tell the trials are not over. They simply reached a point of confidence where Pfizer and Moderna moved forward in seeking and obtaining FDA approval for EUA.

Like RI said, the vaccines are coming to us in waves. Pfizer the first, Moderna the second and then, once the needed information comes from the J&J and Astra Zeneca trials is available, we'll see those roll out as well. The administration is looking at using the DPA to assist Pfizer in getting out more doses in order to get more doses for the US on account of the fact that Pfizer is tasked with fulfilling um...pre-orders for other countries once the UK and the US got their orders filled.

Anyway what I am saying about the trials not being over is because researchers are still studying and recording outcomes and will do so well into the future and all the while tracking the mutations/variants as well as developing more methods of delivery for the vaccines already in place. Example: Pfizer, I believe it is, is developing a powdered version of it's vaccine which will eliminate the cold chain challenges that exist from lab to arm.

Exactly! There is a Phase IV of the trials, during which they look for any fall off in efficacy or appearance of late appearing side effects. And, adverse reactions are supposed to be reported in VAERS. (I forget what it stands for), a database created to track adverse vaccine reactions. Anyone can track VAERS reports, but lots of science reporters are tracking this stuff like hawks.

[Jersey Girl]

Oh geez so RI already answered in much the same way.

From what I can tell the trials are not over. They simply reached a point of confidence where Pfizer and Moderna moved forward in seeking and obtaining FDA approval for EUA.

Like RI said, the vaccines are coming to us in waves. Pfizer the first, Moderna the second and then, once the needed information comes from the J&J and Astra Zeneca trials is available, we'll see those roll out as well. The administration is looking at using the DPA to assist Pfizer in getting out more doses in order to get more doses for the US on account of the fact that Pfizer is tasked with fulfilling um...pre-orders for other countries once the UK and the US got their orders filled.

Anyway what I am saying about the trials not being over is because researchers are still studying and recording outcomes and will do so well into the future and all the while tracking the mutations/variants as well as developing more methods of delivery for the vaccines already in place. Example: Pfizer, I believe it is, is developing a powdered version of it's vaccine which will eliminate the cold chain challenges that exist from lab to arm.

Exactly! There is a Phase IV of the trials, during which they look for any fall off in efficacy or appearance of late appearing side effects. And, adverse reactions are supposed to be reported in VAERS. (I forget what it stands for), a database created to track adverse vaccine reactions. Anyone can track VAERS reports, but lots of science reporters are tracking this stuff like hawks.

I've been reading clinical trials for the last 6 years or so. Though I claim no expertise in that regard, I do know that there here is a follow on phase. They don't simply start dosing people and call it a day.

Example: There is a certain medication that had a black box warning on it. The black box warning was recently removed on account of continuing data collection over time though I am sure it also had to do with the nature of the test subjects at the start which were lab rats and what happened to the lab rats (osteosarcoma) never happened to humans during trial nor usage. Not even once.

I dunno about you RI, but I have done my level best to track all this like a hawk (as you say) from day one because I think my life depends on it. I am completely baffled by people who are content to limit their research to a passing headline and often without even reading the article UNDER the headline and preface their comment with "I heard that...". The concept of primary source simply escapes some folks.

[Res Ipsa]

I’m with you, Jersey. I’ve treated this from the beginning as a matter of life and death. Not out of fear — but out of recognition of both the risks and the stakes and understanding how I can dramatically lower the risk for me and my family at a relatively small cost.

Not everyone can do that. But as added incentive, anything that slows down the velocity of transmission helps in terms of managing the patient load at hospitals and ultimately preventing suffering and death.

[subgenius]

Given the obvious fact that many posters here are old and white:
here ya go,
Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities,” reported The New York Times.
“‘Older populations are whiter,’ Dr. Schmidt said,” the paper continued. “‘Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.’”

...
great solution for leveling the playing field.

[Philo Sofee]

The vaccine is already outdated, and it just barely got here yesterday. That's the stupidity of "Warp Speed" vaccine making. On the other hand, our own stupidity of imagining we are "free" and doing whatever we want consequences be damned, appears to me to show Mother Nature is just going to do her thang and thin out humans......it sounds cold, but our intelligence is our own undermining as a species. We are spoiled rotten, and noW we are going to be rotten dead.

Philo Sofee you are simply mistaken. The clinical trails were done in real time while testing a vaccine's effect on a real virus that was mutating in real time. The virus has been mutating the whole entire time and probably long before we ever heard of it or scientists got their hands on it. It's been mutating throughout the clinical trial process so there is every reason to believe that those candidates who received the mRNA vaccines (or placebo) were exposed to multiple variants of the virus the number of which is mutations in the thousands.

Scientists have been recording and trying to keep up with the mutations this whole entire time and my guess is that they did so as soon as they got their hands on the genetic code for the virus--I'd say that was back in January time frame.

This vaccine is not a flu vaccine in that it's mechanism is different. But...you can think about it in much the same way. The flu vaccines are developed each season based on a prediction. I think we'll ultimately see the covid vaccines go the same route and become a yearly inoculation.

It is so important that we do our best to read, follow, and try to understand these developments. This isn't the first science vs. coronavirus rodeo. Science already had information regarding coronavirus. They got the genetic code for this one, decoded it, shoved the information through various scientific platforms and came up with a profile of the spike protein on the crown/corona of this fragile virus and developed a messenger/trainer that would teach your body how to meet the virus at the door of your body and destroy that spike protein before it has a chance to get in the door and start replicating itself.

I am not a scientist. I am not a health care professional. I'm doing my level best to understand things. These vaccines are a scientific miracle and I don't mind saying that Operation Warp Speed is a huge feather in the cap of the current administration although the President is actually distracting the public with his raving from his single most important achievement.

Until we are vaccinated (if we choose to) keep in mind that the virus is fragile. It can be destroyed by simply scrubbing your hands and breaking it apart. So...wash your hands, wash your surfaces, wear your mask, try to stay out of public places, don't hang out for too long when you are out, protect your bubble as best you can, don't mix with other bubbles that are violating the aforementioned guidelines, and basically do what you need to do to keep this nasty thing away from you and yours.

We are not doomed. We are waiting for our turn and it's critical that we trust the science because it IS trustworthy.

Oh I do SO hope I AM wrong! thanks for the useful and encouraging update! I've had my head into poetry this last few weeks and haven't kept up. I am having so much fun discovering poetry I have been cheerful in spite of the pandemic. I mean, heck man, that in itself is almost good medicine!

[Jersey Girl]

I have got something new to report! This was passed on to me by someone actually connected to this new development. Not joking!

Maryland company develops needle-free COVID-19 vaccine candidate

https://wjla.com/news/coronavirus-vacci ... s-dp22nHAo

[Res Ipsa]

I have got something new to report! This was passed on to me by someone actually connected to this new development. Not joking!

Maryland company develops needle-free COVID-19 vaccine candidate
M

https://wjla.com/news/coronavirus-vacci ... s-dp22nHAo

Awesome! I hope it works.

[Jersey Girl]

Oh I do SO hope I AM wrong! thanks for the useful and encouraging update! I've had my head into poetry this last few weeks and haven't kept up. I am having so much fun discovering poetry I have been cheerful in spite of the pandemic. I mean, heck man, that in itself is almost good medicine!

You are wrong, Philo Sofee. We can all be okay if we just keep doing what we are doing and ride this out until we can get that needle in our collective arms. I would like to know if there is a specific poet you are reading and who that might be? I know you so well, my friend. You binge on things before going on to the next focus of binge. You are like me, Philo Sofee. You are like me. Thank god I have a spirit animal around this place!