Secularism as a proxy for religion.

[Gadianton]

It's been a while, but "secularism as religion" per DCP types who want to say that secularism is a religion for the sake of having a quick comeback to secularists, to say that secularists have just as much irrational faith as they do, isn't a position taken seriously by actual religion scholars. it's mainly Christian apologists who are into that.

[Gunnar]

Can you give me the exact quote you're referring to? I remember them saying "governmental authorities." I don't remember him saying CDC. I've worn a mask to church when I've been asked to do so. We were asked to rise above arguing over the politics of the COVID response. One letter from the regional authorities was quick to point out that masks don't stop COVID (especially cloth masks) but the church leaders believed it helped.

Wear masks and get the vaccine, say top LDS leaders, even as more wards return to face coverings

“We can win this war,” says First Presidency, “if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders.”

“We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants,” the governing First Presidency wrote to everyone in the 16.6 million-member church. “...We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.”

There is not the slightest indication that any of the General Authorities or 1st Presidency disagrees with that assessment. Certainly not the Prophet, who is himself a highly renowned and respected medical professional.

I'm happy to wear my mask to Church for now to help protect the Church from opportunistic politicians who would look to sue and take money from the church because we had a meeting and someone got COVID. If the brethren have to bow down before the political powers that be and tell them what they want to hear to spare us from persecution as members of the church than I thank President Nelson for his wisdom in doing so.

I'm glad that you're happy to wear your mask in to church for the public health reasons the General Authorities and the 1st Presidency have pointed out, but in this entire article there is not the slightest hint or suggestion that "to help protect the Church from opportunistic politicians who would look to sue and take money from the church because we had a meeting and someone got COVID" is a primary or even secondary motivation for their recommendations.

That's essentially what the Church did in the General Manifesto on polygamy.

I certainly agree that that was the primary, and probably the sole reason for the General Manifesto on polygamy, but is entirely irrelevant to the covid issue, because I don't agree for a microsecond that God ever commanded Joseph Smith to institute, much less mandate, the practice of polygamy. That was solely motivated by Smith's lustful desires to possess and marry numerous other women, including in as much as one third of the cases, other men's wives!

The vaccine mandate is a nonissue at this point because vaccinated people can still spread COVIDle of their savings and impose a global economic reset.

President Nelson certainly doesn't agree with that, and his opinion on that is certainly far more credible and authoritative than yours. I repeat from earlier in this post:

We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.”

There is solid evidence that though there will be some breakthrough cases, people who are fully vaccinated are significantly less likely than the unvaccinated to catch it, and far more likely to survive it if they do. And please don't make yourself look even more foolish by suggesting that "immunizing a very high percentage of the population" he meant exposing as many as possible to the virus so they would actually get the disease.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The public atonement continues:

https://deadline.com/2022/02/l-a-mayor- ... 234925457/

Mayor Garcetti claims to have held his breath while snapping photos maskless. Gov. Newsom seen sitting with and without a mask at the game, and gladhanding celebrities maskless. Jessica Alba, Magic Johnson and others ‘outed’ going maskless. Meanwhile “Los Angeles County Public Health officials issued repeated reminders over the past two weeks that masks must be worn at such mega events, even at outdoor gatherings.”



There seems to be something going on here, that I can’t really put my finger on. I’m not talking about Covid fatigue, but rather a sort of dual morality media types have in regards to issues they’re reporting on (I suspect they’re not wearing masks, either). There’s this drumbeat of moralizing, much like we see with Conservatives, but a total failure to live by their own ethics. And then to top it off, you see the ‘priestcraft’ not living the standards they’re preaching, and when caught they under go a public flogging of sorts, and make wildly implausible lies while doing it. Hell, CNN’s Zucker was just fired for damned a CNN exec, and apparently it was an open secret. All this was happening while CNN had a morality clause and Cuomo was removed for violating it.

I’m getting off track here, but the Left definitely mirrors the Right when it comes to codified behavior for thee, but not for me. And it follows similar rites and rituals for moral behaviors, sins, and atonement. It’s more than ‘scientism’, it’s a religion of sorts, but it’s hard to come up with a term that captures the spirit of their ‘secularism’ that’s actually religious in its attitude and execution.

- Doc

[Atlanticmike]

The public atonement continues:

https://deadline.com/2022/02/l-a-mayor- ... 234925457/

Mayor Garcetti claims to have held his breath while snapping photos maskless. Gov. Newsom seen sitting with and without a mask at the game, and gladhanding celebrities maskless. Jessica Alba, Magic Johnson and others ‘outed’ going maskless. Meanwhile “Los Angeles County Public Health officials issued repeated reminders over the past two weeks that masks must be worn at such mega events, even at outdoor gatherings.”



There seems to be something going on here, that I can’t really put my finger on. I’m not talking about Covid fatigue, but rather a sort of dual morality media types have in regards to issues they’re reporting on (I suspect they’re not wearing masks, either). There’s this drumbeat of moralizing, much like we see with Conservatives, but a total failure to live by their own ethics. And then to top it off, you see the ‘priestcraft’ not living the standards they’re preaching, and when caught they under go a public flogging of sorts, and make wildly implausible lies while doing it. Hell, CNN’s Zucker was just fired for damned a CNN exec, and apparently it was an open secret. All this was happening while CNN had a morality clause and Cuomo was removed for violating it.

I’m getting off track here, but the Left definitely mirrors the Right when it comes to codified behavior for thee, but not for me. And it follows similar rites and rituals for moral behaviors, sins, and atonement. It’s more than ‘scientism’, it’s a religion of sorts, but it’s hard to come up with a term that captures the spirit of their ‘secularism’ that’s actually religious in its attitude and execution.

- Doc

Ooops

[ajax18]

because I don't agree for a microsecond that God ever commanded Joseph Smith to institute, much less mandate, the practice of polygamy. That was solely motivated by Smith's lustful desires to possess and marry numerous other women, including in as much as one third of the cases, other men's wives!

Perhaps this is why my views on the scamdemic don't conflict with the prophet's statement in my mind as you would logically conclude they must. I believe in Joseph Smith. You don't. It's similar to abortion. The church takes a pretty strong stance against it. I've never heard the brethren say anything about exceptions where abortion is permissible. But there are just as there are exceptions where choosing not to get vaccinated is acceptable. Like I said, I got Covid and I also got the vaccine. I didn't feel a single symptom with either one nor would I have had any clue that I had Covid without being randomly tested for it.

President Nelson certainly doesn't agree with that, and his opinion on that is certainly far more credible and authoritative than yours. I repeat from earlier in this post:

Do you believe I have to agree with everything President Nelson says in order to sustain him as the prophet? There's a wide range of personal belief and opinion amongst faithful and believing Latter Day Saints who are still temple worthy even those that serve in the quorum of the twelve. Was there an actual global flood? Is the earth 7,000 years old? Did evolution happen? Bruce R. McKonckie certainly had a different opinion on the issue than James Talmage. These are not temple recommend questions. Even abortion which was on the baptismal interview questions at one point was dealt with on a case by case basis. And while a very few truths are absolute, our perspective on the truth is very different than brilliant men like Moses or Abraham. Just as new knowledge can change our scientific views, new revelations can change our spiritual knowledge.

I see what you're saying Gunnar but honestly none of this bothers me in the least. I've gone through far more difficult connundrums early in my life than this and I've come to grips with it and been able to reconcile it in my mind.