Cosmos, Possible Worlds Series on Fox Network

[Gunnar]

Glad you guys have found it in your heart to give sex offender Neil another shot.

Even the most willfully ignorant, passive aggressive science denier out there could not have come up with anything more inappropriate regarding the subject matter of this thread.

Well done, subby.

No, really.

Amen! Knowing subby as most of us do by now, the only thing surprising about his nefarious remark is that he didn't make it much sooner.

[Gunnar]

This is but one example of how the approach of well researched and produced documentaries, such as the one mentioned above on Frontline, are of more interest (to me, at least) than flying around the universe in a fanciful 'ship of the imagination' to a script written for mainly for entertainment value.

I understand where you're coming from and why someone as well versed as you are in the relevant science would tend to feel that way, but as a more scientifically literate than average layman like myself, I tend to be a bit less dismissive than you of the entertainment value of the series--even the "ship of imagination" part. If that entertainment value motivates someone initially less scientifically inclined to at least attempt to become more scientifically literate and appreciative of the importance of understanding how we are all impacted by scientific reality, I can't help but think this series is valuable and worthwhile, even if not quite as valuable and informative as harder hitting series like Frontline and Nova.
_____________________________________

Among the few episodes of Cosmos Future Worlds that I have watched, there have been no scientific inaccuracies that I'm aware of.

I'm relieved to know that!

Another positive about the series is the time spent by DeGrasse Tyson explaining some of the history and personalities behind scientific discovery.

To me, that is probably the most appealing thing about the series.

[DrW]

Happened to catch the last part of Cosmos Possible Worlds (S3/Ep10/" Tale of Two Atoms") while switching through channels last evening.

The episode followed discovery and development of radioactivity from Madam Curie's pitchblende to radium saga, through the creation of the first atomic bomb and on to thermonuclear weapons. Along the way, in good quality animation, it told the story of Hitler's futile attempt to make an atom bomb in contrast to the US team of mainly European immigrants who were given the freedom and the budget to make it happen. Must admit that this episode was great. my wife even wandered in, stayed until the end, and asked some questions.

As a pre-teen I lived for several years not far from the main gate of what was then called the Hanford Atomic Works. This 680 square mile piece of desert was cleared of two small towns and their inhabitants by executive order so the US Government could produce fissile material for the bomb. The Hanford site bordered the Columbia River, which provided the tremendous quantities of fresh water needed to cool an atomic reactor. The image below is of the main Hanford plant in 1945.


It was fascinating to listen to the stories of the LDS scientists and technicians in our Ward describing to my parents what life was like at Hanford during the latter part of the war. Even after the war, in the 1950s, there was a near impenetrable veil of secrecy about what went on at Hanford. In those days, Richland was an Atomic Energy Commission "company town." The government built most of the houses used by the Hanford workers and everyone in town understood that their livelihood, and that of the entire community, depended on no one knowing too much. The inability to talk about your work, the time spend in decontamination, and the nagging uncertainty about radiological exposure, really aged some of the men in our ward.

For a very few, the stress of working with materials in situations where the wrong turn of a screwdriver could kill you, was especially wearing. At Hanford they called the set-up for low level, non-sustainable, and non-explosive nuclear reactions "Teasing the Dragon." Hanford workers talked about this in hushed tones and would never tell the curious (like us kids) exactly what that meant. The clear implication was that an inadequately controlled "dragon" could blow the place up and kill a lot of people. (In fact a high yield explosion was unlikely, but one could produce a lethal doses of radiation in less than a second if they were not very careful. At least two scientists in the program were not careful enough).

Back to Cosmos. I'm here to confess that I've changed my mind about the program. Gunnar was right. The quality has improved a great deal since the first season, and the telling of the Curie to Einstein to Szilard to Oppenheim to Teller story could not have been better. I'm going to make sure that the kids and grandkids watch Season 3, Episode 10, at least.

[Gunnar]

Back to Cosmos. I'm here to confess that I've changed my mind about the program. Gunnar was right. The quality has improved a great deal since the first season, and the telling of the Curie to Einstein to Szilard to Oppenheim to Teller story could not have been better. I'm going to make sure that the kids and grandkids watch Season 3, Episode 10, at least.

Episode 10 was one of my favorite episodes as well. I'm glad you also enjoyed it. Thank you so much for the additional insight you provided from your own knowledge and expertise! I love reading things like that, especially from you.

Have you seen episodes 12 and 13 yet? I found both of them particularly moving and inspirational.

[dantana]

The episode followed discovery and development of radioactivity from Madam Curie's pitchblende to radium saga, through the creation of the first atomic bomb and on to thermonuclear weapons.

For no particular reason I'm going to put on my fav. Hungarian poster's hat, Ludwigm, and offer up a bit of off topic trivia.
At the bottom of the Crooked river gorge in central Or. there bubbles up a spring ... I bet DrW is aware of this;

Interesting Facts About our Source, Opal Springs-
Opal Springs, Circa 1922
› 108,000 gallons per minute
› 53.8° fahrenheit

Opal Springs, today
› 108,000 gallons per minute
› 53.8° fahrenheit


• EartH2O and all surrounding communities together use less than 5% of the natural flow from Opal Springs.
• Very interesting: A U.S. Geological Services report indicates it might have been as long as 2,000 years ago that the water last saw the earth’s surface. Another answer we could give is, “Older than 1945-ish.” The water can’t be carbon-dated, but it can be measured for absence of certain markers, like the radioactive isotope tritium. Tritium is a remnant of above-ground nuclear testing that began in the mid-1940′s. Our water has no tritium in it, so we can safely say its been protected from surface contamination since before the era of above-ground nuclear testing.

[Gunnar]

The episode followed discovery and development of radioactivity from Madam Curie's pitchblende to radium saga, through the creation of the first atomic bomb and on to thermonuclear weapons.

For no particular reason I'm going to put on my fav. Hungarian poster's hat, Ludwigm, and offer up a bit of off topic trivia.
At the bottom of the Crooked river gorge in central Or. there bubbles up a spring ... I bet DrW is aware of this;

Interesting Facts About our Source, Opal Springs-
Opal Springs, Circa 1922
› 108,000 gallons per minute
› 53.8° fahrenheit

Opal Springs, today
› 108,000 gallons per minute
› 53.8° fahrenheit


• EartH2O and all surrounding communities together use less than 5% of the natural flow from Opal Springs.
• Very interesting: A U.S. Geological Services report indicates it might have been as long as 2,000 years ago that the water last saw the earth’s surface. Another answer we could give is, “Older than 1945-ish.” The water can’t be carbon-dated, but it can be measured for absence of certain markers, like the radioactive isotope tritium. Tritium is a remnant of above-ground nuclear testing that began in the mid-1940′s. Our water has no tritium in it, so we can safely say its been protected from surface contamination since before the era of above-ground nuclear testing.

I don't care if it seems off topic. That is a fascinating bit of trivia about which I enjoyed reading. Thanks!

[DrW]

For no particular reason I'm going to put on my fav. Hungarian poster's hat, Ludwigm, and offer up a bit of off topic trivia.
At the bottom of the Crooked river gorge in central Or. there bubbles up a spring ... I bet DrW is aware of this;

Interesting Facts About our Source, Opal Springs-
Opal Springs, Circa 1922
› 108,000 gallons per minute
› 53.8° fahrenheit

Opal Springs, today
› 108,000 gallons per minute
› 53.8° fahrenheit


• EartH2O and all surrounding communities together use less than 5% of the natural flow from Opal Springs.
• Very interesting: A U.S. Geological Services report indicates it might have been as long as 2,000 years ago that the water last saw the earth’s surface. Another answer we could give is, “Older than 1945-ish.” The water can’t be carbon-dated, but it can be measured for absence of certain markers, like the radioactive isotope tritium. Tritium is a remnant of above-ground nuclear testing that began in the mid-1940′s. Our water has no tritium in it, so we can safely say its been protected from surface contamination since before the era of above-ground nuclear testing.

Thanks for the information about Opal Springs. In reading more about what appear to be its artesian springs, the surrounding old growth forest, and the great hiking in the area, I would very much like to go hiking there when the area reopens. As you indicated, there is no doubt that atmospheric nuclear weapons testing has altered the global environment in terms of background radiation.

One of the things that was done in the "300 Area" at Hanford was development of the instrumentation for detecting and counting ultra-low level radiation from specific radionuclides such a tritium, to help understand the long term effects of nuclear weapons testing. In the case of Chernobyl the low level radionuclide of interest was Cesium 137. Like the artesian waters at Opal Springs uncontaminated by tritium, what the group at the 300 area treasured was metal that could be recovered from old shipwrecks that had sunk before the first atmospheric nuclear test.

Metals recovered from these ships had been processed in an low radiation background environment compared to that after the start of atmospheric testing. This metal, especially iron and lead, had much lower intrinsic radioactivity than modern metals and was invaluable in building the shielding against background radiation that otherwise interfered with ultra-low level radionuclide counting.

Soon after the accident at Chernobyl, the lab was able to recruit western scientists and eventually others who went to the area, especially Ukraine, Belarus and Scandinavia, to take shoes with double sided tape on the soles. When they were in the area around Chernobyl in Ukraine, and as far away as the Finland, these people were asked to keep an accurate record of where they went wearing these shoes. The shoes and logs were then send to Hanford, where shoes would be counted in a specially a constructed room enclosed in concrete with no direct path to the outside to minimize background radiation.

Inside this room was a small a hut or igloo build out of lead bricks. The high sensitivity counting instrumentation was installed inside the lead igloo with metal from the shipwrecks as final shielding. The shoes would be counted, sometimes for many hours in order to collect enough data. Over time, the team in the 300 area, working with other scientists, were able to develop the best wide area maps of the types and concentrations of radionuclide fallout from the Chernobyl accident available anywhere.

These maps were shared with Ukraine, southwest Russia and other areas, such as Belarus and Finland, most affected by Chernobyl fallout. These early maps were invaluable in planning measures to minimize population exposure and therefore cancer risk. After initially denying the accident, Ukraine and Russia had no choice but to open up and accept western help, especially after environmental radiation detectors in Northern Europe lit up with Cesium 137 counts.

Had the Russian officials in Ukraine recognized the seriousness of the situation and reacted appropriately, instead of with weeks of denial and prioritization of self interest, a great deal of mortality and morbidity in the civilian population could have avoided. I remember colleagues at Hanford in 1986, who understood early on what had happened in Ukraine, being stunned at how poorly the Russians responded and how easy it would have been to handle things much more effectively than they did.

Officially, 116,000 people were displaced from their homes and livelihoods because of Chernobyl. Among the many adverse health effects were 31 deaths as a direct result of the accident and a 200% increase in birth defects. Eventually just under 7,000 excess cases of thyroid cancer were reported in exposed population who were under 18 in 1986.

The most important health effect of the accident has been the dramatic, up to 5–10 fold increase in thyroid cancer in the exposed population, primarily those exposed in childhood. More than 6,800 thyroid cancer cases have been diagnosed in 1991–2005 among people aged <18 years at the time of the accident in Belarus, Ukraine and south‐western parts of Russia.

Now, at the end of the most horrendous and tragic year in living memory, I can't help but think that, as bad of Chernobyl was, it pales in comparison to the tens of millions infected, 400,000 that will likely die, and trillions spent on recovery in the US because of the attitude of denial and prioritization of self interest that continues to be exhibited by Trump and the far right in the face of Covid19.