Vaccine or not?

[Jersey Girl]

ETA: I just poked around a bit. I think you are talking about the America First executive order with regard to the Pfizer vaccine. Listen, RI would know better than me but...the way I see it, he's in no position to make demands on Pfizer with an executive order from the United States. Wtf, how would that even work with a privately owned company in Germany? What am I crazy talking here?

The pre-orders are in, the contracts are signed and whatever he ordered to start with from Pfizer is what we get until another round of contracts are made.

I think???

This is the problem with a narcissist who is prone to grandstanding. He does stuff that doesn't matter hoping it makes him look like a wartime president who surrendered to the enemy months ago. He hasn't showed up at a Coronavirus Task Force meeting for 5 MONTHS. Because President don't care. President don't give a crap.

He's making demands on a privately owned company which is going to do what exactly? Bow to his almighty power and give up the goods because why...he says so?

We're in bizzaro land territory so far as I can tell.

[Jersey Girl]

Perhaps. The admin is the one that made a big deal in the summer that it had a contract with Pfizer to get 500 million doses. I think Pfizer is first in the chute with the vax? Couple that with today's executive order and I'm reluctant to cut them slack- remember the virus was supposed to magically disappear after the 3rd.

But, sure. I can see where you and RI are coming from.

- Doc

Yes, Pfizer was first. Moderna is about to follow pending FDA approval.

Just know that I don't think I know everything. There's so much crap going down I can hardly keep it straight right now. I should probably investigate further before speculating my behind off.

I've been checking around. I think neither Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines have FDA approval yet. Pfizer seems to be first up and hopefully approved by this Friday. We'll see...

[Jersey Girl]

Here it is. The U.S. bought (in advance) 100 million doses from Pfizer and 100 million doses from Moderna. Pfizer expects FDA approval by this Friday with Moderna soon to follow. Sound good? Do the math. If both receive FDA approval, that means 100 million Americans will be able to receive one of the two vaccines out of a country of more than 300 million.

Something like 18 million health care workers in this country.
Almost 50 million over the age of 65.
No clue how many essential workers. I suppose it depends on who fits that category. Grocery store clerks, pharmacy (?), what...transit workers, construction, skilled labor. Who else? I don't know.

So...given what I am seeing (unless it's all BS and it could be) regarding delivery and distribution, I think it's going to be a long time before any of us here see a shot in the arm and probably folks under age 65 will be waiting until spring or summer to get vaccinated IF newer vaccines receive FDA approval.

I'm obsessing here. I think we're in for yet another FUBAR thanks to President who is apparently singing the praises of herd immunity because so many Americans have been infected and let's not forget about the meaningless executive order he just showboated.

At this point I'm willing to say that he's INSANE.

[Jersey Girl]

Don't ask me how reputable this is.

TABLE 1
Essential workers by industry, 2019

Total Percent of industry
All essential workers 55,217,845 100%
Food and agriculture 11,398,233 20.6%
Emergency services 1,849,630 3.3%
Transportation, warehouse, and delivery 3,972,089 7.2%
Industrial, commercial, residential facilities and services 6,806,407 12.3%
Health care 16,679,875 30.2%
Government and community-based services 4,590,070 8.3%
Communications and IT 3,189,140 5.8%
Financial sector 3,070,404 5.6%
Energy sector 1,327,760 2.4%
Water and wastewater management 107,846 0.2%
Chemical sector 271,160 0.5%
Critical manufacturing 1,955,233 3.5%

https://www.epi.org/blog/who-are-essent ... ion-rates/

[Jersey Girl]

Back to the math. 100 million people can be vaccinated with the 2 vaccines about to receive FDA approval.

18 million health care workers in this country.
Almost 50 million over the age of 65.
Let's go 56 million essential workers.

And for the time being...we're screwed or at least waiting a darn long time.

[Res Ipsa]

ETA: I just poked around a bit. I think you are talking about the America First executive order with regard to the Pfizer vaccine. Listen, RI would know better than me but...the way I see it, he's in no position to make demands on Pfizer with an executive order from the United States. Wtf, how would that even work with a privately owned company in Germany? What am I crazy talking here?

The pre-orders are in, the contracts are signed and whatever he ordered to start with from Pfizer is what we get until another round of contracts are made.

I think???

This is the problem with a narcissist who is prone to grandstanding. He does stuff that doesn't matter hoping it makes him look like a wartime president who surrendered to the enemy months ago. He hasn't showed up at a Coronavirus Task Force meeting for 5 MONTHS. Because the President don't care. the President don't give a crap.

He's making demands on a privately owned company which is going to do what exactly? Bow to his almighty power and give up the goods because why...he says so?

We're in bizzaro land territory so far as I can tell.

I think you know what I know. We have options to buy more Pfizer vax, but options have to be exercised and it sounds like we didn't. As far as I know, none of the contracts have been made public, so we're all shooting in the dark. I don't know whether we have any options for more Moderna.

We have contracted to purchase enough for all U.S. citizens, but the rest of the purchases represent vaccines that are farther behind in testing. I'm not quite sure what we're going to do about the Oxford vaccine, given that they have started a new trial with the initial lower dose. They just dumped a bunch of testing data that the experts are working their way through. I don't know the projected time to availability for the others.

As far as I can tell, the executive order is for show. Contracts are contracts. It's also possible that some of the other vaccine companies that we have orders with are participants in the Covax Accelerator, which requires equitable distribution of vaccines.

I'm 62 and can work from home. I''m not counting on getting the jab until summer at the earliest.

[Jersey Girl]

So the vaccines that are currently "in the shoot" so to speak for the U.S. are Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, and AstraZeneca. I'm sure there are more yet to come but those are the ones in the pipeline and on their way to FDA approval.

I read (don't ask me where) that the U.S. bought in advance 100 million doses from 6 companies. I should substantiate that before shooting off my keyboard, I know, but knowing me I'll forget by the time I get back online later today.

Gates says 8 vaccines by spring/summer.

Pfizer: According to a new report from the UK just issued today, if you have allergies that require the use/carry of an epipen--you need to pass on the Pfizer vaccine due to anaphylactic reactions. The reactions resolved but still...watch it on the Pfizer vax.

[Jersey Girl]

ETA: I just poked around a bit. I think you are talking about the America First executive order with regard to the Pfizer vaccine. Listen, RI would know better than me but...the way I see it, he's in no position to make demands on Pfizer with an executive order from the United States. Wtf, how would that even work with a privately owned company in Germany? What am I crazy talking here?

The pre-orders are in, the contracts are signed and whatever he ordered to start with from Pfizer is what we get until another round of contracts are made.

I think???

This is the problem with a narcissist who is prone to grandstanding. He does stuff that doesn't matter hoping it makes him look like a wartime president who surrendered to the enemy months ago. He hasn't showed up at a Coronavirus Task Force meeting for 5 MONTHS. Because the President don't care. the President don't give a crap.

He's making demands on a privately owned company which is going to do what exactly? Bow to his almighty power and give up the goods because why...he says so?

We're in bizzaro land territory so far as I can tell.

I think you know what I know. We have options to buy more Pfizer vax, but options have to be exercised and it sounds like we didn't. As far as I know, none of the contracts have been made public, so we're all shooting in the dark. I don't know whether we have any options for more Moderna.

We have contracted to purchase enough for all U.S. citizens, but the rest of the purchases represent vaccines that are farther behind in testing. I'm not quite sure what we're going to do about the Oxford vaccine, given that they have started a new trial with the initial lower dose. They just dumped a bunch of testing data that the experts are working their way through. I don't know the projected time to availability for the others.

As far as I can tell, the executive order is for show. Contracts are contracts. It's also possible that some of the other vaccine companies that we have orders with are participants in the Covax Accelerator, which requires equitable distribution of vaccines.

I'm 62 and can work from home. I''m not counting on getting the jab until summer at the earliest.

RI don't quote me on this but last night I viewed a chart that showed international advance orders for Pfizer. If I am not mistaken, it showed projected total orders and there were more than the 100M with this initial order for the U.S. Like I said, don't quote me.

I think that the problem we have has to do with communications. We're hearing from everyone and their dog, unidentified or not, and in those rare moments when we hear from President he's mangling the truth so we are getting disjointed bits of communication---the jerking around effect that I often complain about here.

I am not an attorney but I know good and well that the executive order means exactly nothing. If anything, it's more like a pledge or declaration that the U.S. has not authority to act on because contracts are in place. Does President really think that WE think he can just go grab a ton of vials out of another country's contract order?

Please.

I do think that after Inauguration, we'll get the straight scoop from the Biden admin, but that is more than a month away which when all is said and done, maybe that's not so bad and will coordinate well with the timing of vaccines delivery. We could even have another vaccine approved in that 6 week-ish time frame.

Based on the FUBAR of the last what 9 months now, this is what I foresee happening at the beginning of our deliveries and distribution:

Vaccines damaged in transit.'
Vaccines going to the wrong destination without appropriate storage at the end of the chain--damaging content.
Is there a system in place (I doubt this with every ounce of my being) to make sure the second doses are reserved for the people who received their first dose?

This is all about communication and if we had a competent President we wouldn't be having these discussions to start with. But we don't. So we are.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Let me ask you all a question. Is this a serious right-wing conspiracy or is this a parody?



How screwed up is that you don't know?

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

Cam I dunno. I wouldn't put much stock either way in someone who is so inattentive they can't spell the name of the drug company correctly.