The Fentanyl Crisis thread

[Markk]

Yes, using construction as a model is you thinking. Using Fentanyl as a model is you blindly following your maniacal political luminaries. This is an improvement.

It took a civil war to end slave ownership. Ending illegal immigration won't happen without significantly penalizing employers and even then I'm not sure. Whether illegal immigration for work even counts as a problem depends on whether you a) believe in free markets or b) believe in socialism. If you wish to announce MAGA as socialist, then I agree with you in principle that illegal immigration could be a problem. Actually, we need be careful about terminology as we're taking the cart before the horse. Immigration is a concern for a social-welfare state. Care must be taken to ensure that the benefit of the immigrants don't outweigh the cost of providing them with the lavish social benefits citizens enjoy. This is where, as central planners, we sit down and calculate how many immigrants we should let in and then draw a line. On purpose, we are causing shortages. Employers will want cheap labor, and cheap labor will want employers, and the law must brutally stop supply and demand from meeting, with the greater harshness on the demand side (employers).

One of the effects of making immigration illegal in the first place is the resulting black markets. Many of the bad things that go along with illegal immigration happen simply because it was made illegal, and the tremendous forces of supply and demand are pulling towards each other. Think about prohibition.

An open border is an extension of the self-regulating market that Adam Smith described. I believe in a radical version of free-markets called rational expectations. In that theory, it is exceptionally difficult to beat market forces by policy prescriptions. Cheap labor undercutting good gigs by workers is a reality of a functioning free market. Innovation should ensure other work opportunities. By giving your workers higher wages, the cost to build a house goes up, and your workers still won't be able to afford a house. The US was built on completely open and cut-throat immigration and competition. To say a policy maker knows exactly where to draw the line in history and say -- whoah! enough is enough, no more immigrants! is absurd.

The border is open in the other direction. More Americans are moving to Mexico than Mexicans are moving to America. If America is too expensive, there are options here. Catastrophic inflation and the problem with housing is not an easy problem to untangle. I've been dipping my toes into the problem, but I don't have any great explanation nor easy fixes. I can guarantee you that Donald Trump has no freaking clue, and all your outrage policies will just make things worse in the short-run and long-run for the average American. Perhaps they will deserve it for trying to fix their problems by inhumane policies like "mass deportations".

I started a new thread on this, maybe this one can get back to the OP title.

[Bret Ripley]

Forged documents don't really work very well if the employer processes I-9s through E-Verify, which is required for federal contractors (and is also required by some states).

Bogus social security cards are even incredibly easy to identify by feel alone, as they won’t be created using an intaglio press.

Back in the days before E-Verify, we could spot a forged social security card by using a magnifying glass on the signature line. On forged cards this would be a solid line, and on genuine cards the line was made of microprinted words: "Social Security Administration."

[Markk]

They fill out a I-9, and present two forms of ID. They can present a DL, or foreign ID and say a temp or permanent work card. They way they get around it is that these cards are forged and marketed by the cartels.

Forged documents don't really work very well if the employer processes I-9s through E-Verify, which is required for federal contractors (and is also required by some states).

[Granted, the E-Verify system was partially exploitable during COVID because the government couldn't keep up with processing indeterminate results, so workers with document problems could (for example) go to their local Social Security Administration office and begin the process of resolving their document issue; SSA kept extending the deadline for workers to supply evidence because they didn't have the workers to process these cases. In the meanwhile, these workers could remain employed.]

E-verify is not required in CA. You are correct with fed work, the company I currently work for, and have worked of and on for in past years, is based in San Diego. We did a lot of Navy work, I believe we used E-verifiy or what ever safe guards that were required by the navy.

[Markk]

Bogus social security cards are even incredibly easy to identify by feel alone, as they won’t be created using an intaglio press.

Back in the days before E-Verify, we could spot a forged social security card by using a magnifying glass on the signature line. On forged cards this would be a solid line, and on genuine cards the line was made of microprinted words: "Social Security Administration."

What business are you in?

[Markk]

Forged documents don't really work very well if the employer processes I-9s through E-Verify, which is required for federal contractors (and is also required by some states).

Bogus social security cards are even incredibly easy to identify by feel alone, as they won’t be created using an intaglio press.

That's probably why they bring photo copies.

What did or what do you do for a living?

[Gadianton]

This is hilarious. According to Markk, no business owner who hires illegals has any idea who are the illegals, which is a good thing since a first offense of knowingly hiring an illegal is 6 months in jail. On the one hand, no employers have ever known which workers are illegals. While on the other hand, when ICE does a raid, they know exactly who the illegals are, and we can fully trust that no rights are ever violated of legals.

It seems like there is a potential solution here that doesn't involve mass deportations or sending bosses to jail, if only I could put my finger on it.

[Bret Ripley]

Back in the days before E-Verify, we could spot a forged social security card by using a magnifying glass on the signature line. On forged cards this would be a solid line, and on genuine cards the line was made of microprinted words: "Social Security Administration."

What business are you in?

The lazy answer is that I'm technically an accountant. For purposes of this conversation, I think it's probably enough to say that I have experience with government construction contracts, E-Verify, certified payroll reporting, and the struggles of hiring qualified workers during labor shortages. I will add that before my current gig I worked almost 25 years in agriculture and am very aware of the role played by immigrants (legal or not) in food production. (If you think milk and eggs are expensive now, just go ahead and take immigrants out of the picture -- yikes.)

[Markk]

This is hilarious. According to Markk, no business owner who hires illegals has any idea who are the illegals, which is a good thing since a first offense of knowingly hiring an illegal is 6 months in jail. On the one hand, no employers have ever known which workers are illegals. While on the other hand, when ICE does a raid, they know exactly who the illegals are, and we can fully trust that no rights are ever violated of legals.

It seems like there is a potential solution here that doesn't involve mass deportations or sending bosses to jail, if only I could put my finger on it.

That is just dumb, the system allows them to play dumb and you know it. You have no solutions or can even identify the folks you vote for who I assume have solutions....this is all just about your hatred for Trump. I started a new thread I hope you opine.

If your answer is just fire all the bosses, state it there.

Are you a Bernie bro? Who did you vote for in the last election? Harris?

[Markk]

What business are you in?

The lazy answer is that I'm technically an accountant. For purposes of this conversation, I think it's probably enough to say that I have experience with government construction contracts, E-Verify, certified payroll reporting, and the struggles of hiring qualified workers during labor shortages. I will add that before my current gig I worked almost 25 years in agriculture and am very aware of the role played by immigrants (legal or not) in food production. (If you think milk and eggs are expensive now, just go ahead and take immigrants out of the picture -- yikes.)

My wife is a HR manger for a medium sized (120-150 accountants and admin) accounting firm, and served on SHRM boards off and on. I pick her brain a a lot. I was asking her about this, this morning and she said the only real way to know fore sure, 100%, is to have ICE do an audit. She said she does not have any issues in accounting unless it is a foreign new recruit with an expired student visa, but that is very rare, a few times in ten years. But ten years ago or so she managed HR at a distribution company and it was tough finding out who were legal or not for the warehouse workers.

I started a new thread I would be interested to see your solutions. I hope you join in and offer your insight.

[canpakes]

What did or what do you do for a living?

I’m a coyote.