Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[Gunnar]

If you have read something in the book, that somehow makes these facts, irrelative, please tell me what hey are and I will certainly address them, and you still have not explained how the GOP stacked the the Supreme Court, when it was by the luck of winning at the right time, when Justices either died, retired, and held the Senate.

Nope! It was not just "by the luck of winning at the right time, when Justices either died, retired and held the Senate." You know as well as I do that McConnel unfairly, maliciously and hypocritically held up the Obama's nomination for Justice for the last year of his term for the specious reason that he thought it unfair for Obama's pick to be voted on so close to the end of his term, only to completely disregard that justification when pushing to confirm Justice Barret.

On October 26, the Senate voted to confirm Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court, with 52 of 53 Republicans voting in favor, while Susan Collins and all 47 Democrats voted against; Barrett took the judicial oath on October 27.[2] Democrats rebuked Republicans and accused them of hypocrisy, stating that they had violated their own interpretation of the Biden rule, which they set in 2016 when they refused to consider then-President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland more than nine months before the end of his term.[3] The 35 days between the nomination and the 2020 presidential election marked the shortest period of time between a nomination to the Supreme Court and a presidential election in U.S. history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Coney ... nomination

Had it not been for that, there would now be two more non-conservative Justices on the court, changing the balance to 5 to 4 in the more moderates' favor.

Gunnar, it is very relevant. The name of his book and the series of presentations are called the scheme, and the back bone and baseline for both the book and the presentations is that the right wing conspired, by Powell being named to the the Supreme Court.

What I find the most relevant is the existence of "The Scheme" itself, which, as I see it, Whitehouse has meticulously researched and found incontrovertible evidence for. He left no reasonable doubt about the fact that ultra-conservative Republicans and their wealthy donors are fully behind this scheme to capture the Supreme Court and turn it into a tool for their own avaricious and even immoral purposes. You cannot reasonably or honestly deny that the literally millions of dollars worth of gifts and bribes to certain conservative Justices from immensely wealthy oligarchs raise seriously legitimate ethical and even legal concerns. I find Whitehouse's book and video series almost infinitely more credible than anything you have so far argued. And Whitehouse never denied that Powell was a Democrat. That he was a Democrat did not make his part in this scheme any less pernicious and wrong.

So it is apparent that you also do not want to discuss who Sydnor was, or you do not know. He was a democrat, and the Chairman, education committee, for the US Chamber of Commerce. Mr. Sydnor before this was a state of Virginia house member, and later a state senator, and again a democrat.

You are mistaken that I did not want to discuss who Sydnor was. I just hadn't got around to it yet. I researched and found, at your suggestion, Sydnor. I was not favorably impressed with his idea that free enterprise was under broad attack and in danger of extinction or eradication because of the enactment of commonsense regulatory efforts to restrain businesses from damaging the environment and endangering the health and safety of their workers and the American populace. His idea seems to be that the government should place virtually no restrictions at all on whatever businesses do to enhance their profits and minimize their costs and obligations. I urge you again to review The Scheme # 27 and other episodes relating to regulatory measures.

According to COUNTERPUNCH

May 11, 2012
A Call to Arms for Class War: From the Top Down
Steven Higgs

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Lewis F. Powell’s 1971 memorandum to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce — “Attack on American Free Enterprise System” — may or may not have been the first shot fired in the nation’s late-20th-century right-wing revolution. But from the document’s title to its ominous conclusion — “Business and the enterprise system are in deep trouble, and the hour is late” — it was a literal call to the political arms that have subsequently driven the nation’s devolution from democracy to oligarchy.

I don't respect or find anything at all admirable or moral about what seems to be this ". . .literal call to the political arms that have subsequently driven the nation’s devolution from democracy to oligarchy."

[Markk]

Gunnar: Nope! It was not just "by the luck of winning at the right time, when Justices either died, retired and held the Senate." You know as well as I do that McConnel unfairly, maliciously and hypocritically held up the Obama's nomination for Justice for the last year of his term for the specious reason that he thought it unfair for Obama's pick to be voted on so close to the end of his term, only to completely disregard that justification when pushing to confirm Justice Barret.

Gunnar, the GOP won the Senate, did you read what I wrote? If the Democrat's were in the same position, they would have done the same thing. Like I wrote elections matter.

And either way how does that tie into as being a scheme started by Powell in 1971?

Gunnar: Had it not been for that, there would now be two more non-conservative Justices on the court, changing the balance to 5 to 4 in the more moderates' favor.

Yes, If the Democrat's had won the senate, they would have Garland as a SCJOTUS. The luck of the draw, elections matter, and it has nothing to do with Powell's, a democrat, written memo to a democrat Chairman of the US chamber of commerce in 1971.

Gunnar:
What I find the most relevant is the existence of "The Scheme" itself, which, as I see it, Whitehouse has meticulously researched and found incontrovertible evidence for. He left no reasonable doubt about the fact that ultra-conservative Republicans and their wealthy donors are fully behind this scheme to capture the Supreme Court and turn it into a tool for their own avaricious and even immoral purposes. You cannot reasonably or honestly deny that the literally millions of dollars worth of gifts and bribes to certain conservative Justices from immensely wealthy oligarchs raise seriously legitimate ethical and even legal concerns. I find Whitehouse's book and video series almost infinitely more credible than anything you have so far argued. And Whitehouse never denied that Powell was a Democrat. That he was a Democrat did not make his part in this scheme any less pernicious and wrong.

There is not a scheme, it is called politics. Every party has gone after and nominated judges that they believe will help their party. You just admitted it above saying if Mitch wouldn't have "cheated" the left would have their choice on the court.

Who raised more dirty monies for the last election Gunnar? What were those numbers?

CFR on the bribes, and to who please.

Is a paid trip for a justice from a billionaire a bribe?:

You are mistaken that I did not want to discuss who Sydnor was. I just hadn't got around to it yet. I researched and found, at your suggestion, Sydnor. I was not favorably impressed with his idea that free enterprise was under broad attack and in danger of extinction or eradication because of the enactment of commonsense regulatory efforts to restrain businesses from damaging the environment and endangering the health and safety of their workers and the American populace. His idea seems to be that the government should place virtually no restrictions at all on whatever businesses do to enhance their profits and minimize their costs and obligations. I urge you again to review The Scheme # 27 and other episodes relating to regulatory measures.

I am still listening to the presentations.

So was Sydnor a democrat or republican? Why was the Democrat Powell writing a memo for him?

I don't respect or find anything at all admirable or moral about what seems to be this ". . .literal call to the political arms that have subsequently driven the nation’s devolution from democracy to oligarchy."

Why did more billionaires support the left, and why did the left take 100% more dirty money in 2024?

[Molok]

Gunnar: Nope! It was not just "by the luck of winning at the right time, when Justices either died, retired and held the Senate." You know as well as I do that McConnel unfairly, maliciously and hypocritically held up the Obama's nomination for Justice for the last year of his term for the specious reason that he thought it unfair for Obama's pick to be voted on so close to the end of his term, only to completely disregard that justification when pushing to confirm Justice Barret.

Gunnar, the GOP won the Senate, did you read what I wrote? If the Democrat's were in the same position, they would have done the same thing. Like I wrote elections matter.

Is this really the best lie you can think of to tell yourself?

[Some Schmo]

Gunnar, the GOP won the Senate, did you read what I wrote? If the Democrat's were in the same position, they would have done the same thing. Like I wrote elections matter.

Is this really the best lie you can think of to tell yourself?

Yes.

And you know why? Because this is how the modern right wing thinks. They fear and accuse the Democrats doing all the corruption they invented and want to pull off themselves, even though they have no evidence Democrats are as corrupt as they are.

Nobody is more suspicious of theft than thieves themselves.

[Markk]

Is this really the best lie you can think of to tell yourself?

Yes.

And you know why? Because this is how the modern right wing thinks. They fear and accuse the Democrats doing all the corruption they invented and want to pull off themselves, even though they have no evidence Democrats are as corrupt as they are.

Nobody is more suspicious of theft than thieves themselves.

LOL...schmo, You do realize the Whitehouse is accusing the GOP of inventing a scheme to control the the Supreme Court....by stating the Powell is the GOP's man, all the while Powell was a liberal democrat the was a champion of Roe V Wade on the courts, without mentioning he was a democrat in his book or presentations?

Simply Classic Schmo

[Gunnar]

Is a paid trip for a justice from a billionaire a bribe?:

Without a doubt! And that is only a minor part of the problem!

The Scheme 21: “As Friends Do”

314,640 views Apr 19, 2023
April 18 | Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Courts Subcommittee, delivered the twenty-first in a series of speeches titled “The Scheme,” exposing the machinations by right-wing donor interests to capture the U.S. Supreme Court and achieve through the Court what they cannot through the elected branches of government.

Whitehouse discussed Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s brazen disregard for ethics disclosure laws.

Last week, Whitehouse and Representative Hank Johnson (D-GA) sent a letter calling on the Judicial Conference to refer Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Attorney General for potential violations of the Ethics in Government Act 1978. The letter comes after two bombshell reports from ProPublica exposing Justice Thomas’s failure to disclose the sale of properties to billionaire Harlan Crow, and revealing that Justice Thomas and his wife accepted extravagant vacations on Crow’s dime, including individual trips worth as much as $500,000, without disclosing them as federal law requires.

The Scheme 20: The Ethics-Free Zone Around The Supreme Court

Whitehouse discussed the ethics-free zone around the Supreme Court and the lack of process for enforcing rules governing conflicts of interest, recusal, and transparency.

The Scheme 22: Justice Alito and the Polluter Page

204,483 views Jul 12, 2023
July 12 | Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Courts Subcommittee, delivered the twenty-second in a series of speeches titled “The Scheme,” exposing the machinations by right-wing donor interests to capture the Supreme Court and achieve through the Court what they cannot through the elected branches of government.

Whitehouse discussed Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito’s cozy relationship with right-wing billionaire benefactors and his curious links to the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

The Senator’s speech follows a bombshell report by ProPublica last month that found Justice Alito accepted and failed to disclose a luxury Alaskan fishing vacation with Republican billionaires Paul Singer and Robin Arkley II. According to the report, Justice Alito’s billionaire-funded vacation was planned and attended by Leonard Leo. Leo is the orchestrator of right-wing influence campaigns around the Supreme Court. A subsequent New York Times report raises to six the number of right-wing billionaires that have provided services and benefits to Justice Alito and Justice Clarence Thomas.

[Gunnar]

LOL...schmo, You do realize the Whitehouse is accusing the GOP of inventing a scheme to control the the Supreme Court....by stating the Powell is the GOP's man, all the while Powell was a liberal democrat the was a champion of Roe V Wade on the courts, without mentioning he was a democrat in his book or presentations?

Simply Classic Schmo

Considering Powell's extreme views against any kind of legal or ethical restraints or regulations concerning what businesses should be entitled to do to pursue profits, regardless of environmental consequences or potential hazards to health and safety, I would not characterize him as a "liberal" or reasonable anything.

[Gunnar]

Is a paid trip for a justice from a billionaire a bribe?:

Without a doubt! And that is only a minor part of the problem!

The Scheme 21: “As Friends Do”

314,640 views Apr 19, 2023
April 18 | Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Courts Subcommittee, delivered the twenty-first in a series of speeches titled “The Scheme,” exposing the machinations by right-wing donor interests to capture the U.S. Supreme Court and achieve through the Court what they cannot through the elected branches of government.

Whitehouse discussed Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s brazen disregard for ethics disclosure laws.

Last week, Whitehouse and Representative Hank Johnson (D-GA) sent a letter calling on the Judicial Conference to refer Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Attorney General for potential violations of the Ethics in Government Act 1978. The letter comes after two bombshell reports from ProPublica exposing Justice Thomas’s failure to disclose the sale of properties to billionaire Harlan Crow, and revealing that Justice Thomas and his wife accepted extravagant vacations on Crow’s dime, including individual trips worth as much as $500,000, without disclosing them as federal law requires.

The Scheme 20: The Ethics-Free Zone Around The Supreme Court

Whitehouse discussed the ethics-free zone around the Supreme Court and the lack of process for enforcing rules governing conflicts of interest, recusal, and transparency.

The Scheme 22: Justice Alito and the Polluter Page

204,483 views Jul 12, 2023
July 12 | Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Courts Subcommittee, delivered the twenty-second in a series of speeches titled “The Scheme,” exposing the machinations by right-wing donor interests to capture the Supreme Court and achieve through the Court what they cannot through the elected branches of government.

Whitehouse discussed Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito’s cozy relationship with right-wing billionaire benefactors and his curious links to the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

The Senator’s speech follows a bombshell report by ProPublica last month that found Justice Alito accepted and failed to disclose a luxury Alaskan fishing vacation with Republican billionaires Paul Singer and Robin Arkley II. According to the report, Justice Alito’s billionaire-funded vacation was planned and attended by Leonard Leo. Leo is the orchestrator of right-wing influence campaigns around the Supreme Court. A subsequent New York Times report raises to six the number of right-wing billionaires that have provided services and benefits to Justice Alito and Justice Clarence Thomas.

As you continue through the series you will find other bribes and gifts (such as Clarence Thomas' gift of a luxury motor home). There is simply no honest way to deny that certain Justices have been corrupted by billionaires attempting to influence them in cases involving these billionaires own interests from which these justices should have ethically recused themselves.

And I still find Sheldon Whitehouse's presentations far more credible, telling and comprehensive than anything I have seen you present so far in your attempts to rebut him. The main thrust of your arguments seems to be attempts to accuse Democrats of doing something similar. I have already pointed out and chided you for the basic immaturity and un reasonability of that approach.

[Markk]

Without a doubt! And that is only a minor part of the problem!

Are these bribes?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pfds.opensecre ... 5_2018.pdf

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pfds.opensecre ... 4_2018.pdf

And if the folks that bribed these two justices contributed to the democratic party, is that a scheme by you standards?

is this a bribe?

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg disclosed taking more trips than any other justice in 2018, totaling 14. She visited Tel Aviv, Israel where she was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the Genesis Prize Foundation. Shortly following the award ceremony, she disclosed being provided transportation, food and lodging as a tourist and guest of billionaire Israeli businessman Morris Kahn.

Kahn is a highly into Green Initiatives....could that have affected Ruth Bader Ginsburg's stance on the courts?

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/0 ... -up-trips/

One more time....why did the Democrat's take and spend double the amount of Dark Monies in the last election, something like 1.3 Billion dollars....does W-H get to that in the later presentations?

Gunnar, you are falling hook, line, and sinker into a liberal trap by Whitehouse. As you know we have three branches of Government, and all three are "Bribed" by special interests and lobbyists.

There is a easy fix to all this, end lobbying and pork barrel bills. But it won't happen in that folks come to Washington far more often to get rich, instead of making a change.

9 of the top 10 senators in the Senate that took the most money from lobbyist, are democrats. Why?

And Whitehouse himself took almost a million dollars of "dark Money" from superPAC's in 24.

https://www.opensecrets.org/political-a ... ients/2024

[Kishkumen]

Which is why elections matter. I Stated above how having the senate was key. We can go tit for tat on how party's cheat probably from the first elections and administrations.

I will assume you have not read the book, and back to my point that W-H is lying by omission, and has created a straw-man that some how the GOP scheme started with Powell's memo as a plan for the scheme, and then his being named to the the Supreme Court, as the GOP having their man in the Court....when in all reality and truth Powell was democrat.

No matter how you spin it, W-H is lying and suckering folks like Gunnar, and apparently yourself, to believe the GOP created some sort of scheme in 1971 to stack the current the Supreme Court.

It is just non-sense.

Markk, you create a lot of No True Scotsman demands in your approach to issues. I don’t. I don’t think it really matters which party Powell belonged to because I care about policy. You think it is some kinda “gotcha” if he was a Democrat. He was a Democrat in a time when there was such a things as conservative Democrats. You are aware of that? So if a guy who was a Democrat then pursued a policy that Republicans today continue, that is really only a shock to the historically illiterate.