Election Litigation Status

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Election Litigation Scorecard

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:58 am
RI help me out here. All of these state cases that are being dismissed. What will be the role of the Supreme Court in hearing these? I think I know the answer but my head is full of true crime and I might be mixing things up with appeals...or are these appeals as well? Correct me if I am wrong. If a crime case goes to an appeals court, the job of the appeals court is to ensure that attorney's and state both did their jobs, right? To make sure the defendant didn't get shafted. Is this the same thing that the Supreme Court will be sorting out?

Forgive me for my stupidity. I am surely mixing things up.
Jersey Girl, I think my explanation last night was more confusing than enlightening. Let me try again.

Let's start with a garden variety auto accident trial. During the pre-trial and trial portions of the case, the judge makes hundreds (maybe thousands) of decisions. He may have to resolve disputes between the sides over discovery (the formal process of gather factual information). Multiple motions may be filed to dispose of parts of the case on purely legal grounds. Before the trial starts, both sides may have filed what are called "motions in limine" -- motions to limit the evidence that the other side can present to the jury. The judge has to decide each of these motions, which will affect what the jury gets to hear or see. The defense may have filed motions to dismiss certain charges because the evidence is insufficient to even raise a question for the jury. The judge has to decide whether to grant or deny motions of the parties to strike jurors for cause. The judge also has to decide on the many objections that one side or the other makes during the trial. Finally, the judge has to decide which instructions are to be given to the jury. Then the jury is given the instructions, which tell them what the applicable law is, and they decide the fact of whether the defendant is innocent or guilty under the law. The basic division of labor is that the jury decides the facts and the judge decides the law.

If there is no jury, the judge will generally prepare a statement of facts and conclusions of law. That lets the appellate court know which standard of review it should apply.

Judges are human and humans make mistakes. In general, the job of an appellate court is to make sure that the judge didn't make a mistake that is significant enough to have affected the outcome of the case. It can also review the evidence that was presented at trial to make sure that the jury's conclusion could have been supported by the evidence.

Different standards are applied by appellate courts. Some types of issues are reviewed de novo -- the appellate substitutes its own judgment for the trial court. A good example is the interpretation of a statute. For other decisions, appellate courts use "abuse of discretion." A good example is whether to admit certain evidence. The appellate court recognizes that judges have discretion over that kind of decision and so confine themselves to deciding whether, basically, no reasonable judge could have ruled the way the trial court did. There are other standards and the names given to them vary from state to state. But, in terms of reviewing factual decisions by the jury, review is generally confined to whether there is evidence in the record from which a reasonable juror could reach the conclusion that the jury reached.

The appellate court does not review the entire trial and pre-trial record. The appealing party or parties have to state precisely which issues they think the judge got wrong and then supply the appellate court with the materials from the record that support their position. The appellate court generally confines itself to reviewing evidence presented to the trial court and legal issues raised with the trial court.

If the appellate court agrees that the judge made an error, it also must decide whether the error was serious enough to alter the result in the case. If it was, it's called "reversible error" as opposed to "harmless error."

So, in my state, the main trial courts are called Superior Courts. Parties have the right to have their cases appealed to our Court of Appeals. The Court of Appeals reviews the legal errors claimed by the appealing parties and affirms or reverses. Parties can ask our State Supreme Court to review alleged errors made by the Court of Appeals, but it has discretion over which cases it reviews. Parties can appeal from the State Supreme Court to the U.S. Supreme Court, but the Supreme Court is unlikely to accept review (certiorari) unless the case involves a federal statute or regulation or the U.S. Constitution.

There are a million little exceptions to what I've written, but that's the general idea.

With lawsuits that challenge the result of elections, the situation is infinitely more complex. Each state has its own election laws, and they provide different procedures for challenging an election.

Complication number one: for some issues, the "trial" is actionably an administrative procedure. In such a case, what I've been calling the trial court can actually act as an appellate court. For example, suppose I show up at the polls and a poll challenger challenges my right to vote. The challenge triggers some kind of process, which varies from state to state. There might be a couple levels of review by election officials, where I can argue that I am an eligible voter. The final administrative ruling on election challenges might be made, say, by the County Board of elections. But I may have the right to appeal that ruling to the court system, maybe to a "trial court" which actually functions as an appeal of the County decision. The scope of its review may be limited. There is no uniformity among the states, and it takes lots of time to look at each case and see exactly what is going on.

Complication number two: the state laws for challenging an election result can use different levels of their court systems for different functions. So, just looking at the title of the court may not tell you what the court's role actually is in the process.

Complication number three: many of the lawsuits that have been filed are outside of the state's official process for challenging an election. That's true of all of the cases filed in federal court. It's also true of several of the state lawsuits, some of which seek special writs at different levels of the court system.

Complication number four: most of the lawsuit seek some kind of emergency injunctive relief (i.e., an emergency order stopping the voting, or stopping the certification process, or ordering the replacement of electors, or declaring Trump the winner.) This is relief before any trial or discovery every takes place. This kind of relief carries a pretty heavy burden of proof. Part of that burden is proving a substantial likelihood of winning on the merits after a full trial. So, the courts have to do some examination of the facts, including affidavits or even live testimony. This is a little tricky, as everyone involved in the legal system knows that affidavits are drafted by lawyers and signed by clients who often don't read them very carefully. So, we've seen several examples of witnesses who have backed off of claims in their affidavits when questioned live. Many of the affidavits I've seen or read about were signed by election "observers" who didn't understand the process they were observing. So, things that looked like "fraud" to them were actually normal procedures. This happened in one of the Michigan cases. Many of the affidavits are also conclusory -- they go beyond the facts. In this process, courts don't take conclusions by witnesses at face value. So, this process is similar to fact-finding by the judge, only the issue is not who is right, but who is very likely to be right.

Complication number five: Standing. If I hit your car, you have standing to sue me because I damaged you. But when it comes to challenging government actions, like an election, standing is its own complicated set of rules. Even if an election board breaks a rule, I may not have standing to sue over it. I have to demonstrate that I have been harmed in a way recognized by the standing rules before I can advance beyond filing a complaint. The standing rules can vary depending on the kind of claim -- equal protection and due process have their own lines of cases that set out rules for standing. I don't pretend to understand the nuances.

TL/DR These various election suits are about as complicated as law gets. That's why election litigation is a super specialized area of law. The average person trying to figure all this out is going to be completely confused. If you want to get into more detail, maybe pick a case and we can walk through what the court is doing/has done.
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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Monday updates:

Arizona certified its election results.

The Judge in the Georgia "Krakken" case held a zoom hearing last night on plaintiffs' Motion for Emergency Relief. Among other things, plaintiffs requested an order decertifying the election, an injunction requiring the Governor to appoint Trump electors as the presidential electors, and a bunch of discovery. What they got was an order that three counties not "reset" any Dominion voting machines, which is the first step in the machine recount demanded by the Trump campaign. Defendants have until the end of Wednesday to file briefs opposing the forensic examination that plaintiffs want to do on the voting machines. The trial judge also certified an immediate appeal to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals on the basis that an appeal now might ultimately shorten the lawsuit.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4864030 ... from_embed

ETA: The first post for this thread is now a summary of all active election litigation cases.

Wisconsin certifies its results.

As Arizona certified its results today, plaintiff filed an amended complaint in the election challenge. https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... plaint.pdf

And yet another lawsuit in Georgia. Plaintiff asks for either a new Verification and Audit or decertification and a redo. https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... plaint.pdf
Last edited by Res Ipsa on Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:10 pm
... Defendants have until the end of Wednesday to file briefs opposing the forensic examination that plaintiffs want to do on the voting machines. ...
Since speculation in this context is not out of bounds for you, can you offer a reasonable cause for why the Defendants would oppose the forensic examination?
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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It's now December in the election that wouldn't die. Tuesday updates:

The Trump Campaign filed a request to appeal with the MI Court of Appeals from the dismissal of its case filed with the MI Court of Claims. This was the case in which the campaign tried to argue that an affidavit that was hearsay within hearsay was "not hearsay." And, yes, they argue it again to the Court of Appeals.

There are a number of lawsuits like this one where a lawsuit was filed on or shortly after election day along with a motion for emergency relief. Most of those motions were denied, but the suits haven't all been dismissed yet. I'm tracking them only if somebody takes some new action.

The Democratic Party has moved to intervene in the two Krakken suits and has filed a proposed motion to dismiss in both. It has also moved to intervene in the suit recently filed in MI by lawyers for the Thomas Moore Society and in another of the GA cases.
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:37 pm
It's now December in the election that wouldn't die. Tuesday updates:

The Trump Campaign filed a request to appeal with the MI Court of Appeals from the dismissal of its case filed with the MI Court of Claims. This was the case in which the campaign tried to argue that an affidavit that was hearsay within hearsay was "not hearsay." And, yes, they argue it again to the Court of Appeals.

There are a number of lawsuits like this one where a lawsuit was filed on or shortly after election day along with a motion for emergency relief. Most of those motions were denied, but the suits haven't all been dismissed yet. I'm tracking them only if somebody takes some new action.

The Democratic Party has moved to intervene in the two Krakken suits and has filed a proposed motion to dismiss in both. It has also moved to intervene in the suit recently filed in MI by lawyers for the Thomas Moore Society and in another of the GA cases.
Res:

What do you think of continued losses, a concession by Trump in a couple of weeks, and then the lawsuits continuing like the Green Party lawsuit did (for four years)? The Kraken lawsuits seem to have some plausible teeth but will need time to get going and time is short. Perhaps this is why some are holding up 2024 signs at Trump events? Maybe get ready for Trump T.V. and a long campaign against Biden with attacks every night?
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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What teeth?

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Re: Election Litigation Status

Post by Brack »

Republicans used to be against frivolous lawsuits.
The Republican president filed his suit against Democratic Gov. Tony Evers and election officials a day after the governor and the head of the state Elections Commission certified Joe Biden had won the state’s 10 Electoral College votes.

Trump has made little headway with lawsuits in other states and he faces an extraordinarily difficult path in Wisconsin.


https://amp.jsonline.com/amp/6475902002
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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Dr Exiled wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:42 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:37 pm
It's now December in the election that wouldn't die. Tuesday updates:

The Trump Campaign filed a request to appeal with the MI Court of Appeals from the dismissal of its case filed with the MI Court of Claims. This was the case in which the campaign tried to argue that an affidavit that was hearsay within hearsay was "not hearsay." And, yes, they argue it again to the Court of Appeals.

There are a number of lawsuits like this one where a lawsuit was filed on or shortly after election day along with a motion for emergency relief. Most of those motions were denied, but the suits haven't all been dismissed yet. I'm tracking them only if somebody takes some new action.

The Democratic Party has moved to intervene in the two Krakken suits and has filed a proposed motion to dismiss in both. It has also moved to intervene in the suit recently filed in MI by lawyers for the Thomas Moore Society and in another of the GA cases.
Res:

What do you think of continued losses, a concession by Trump in a couple of weeks, and then the lawsuits continuing like the Green Party lawsuit did (for four years)? The Kraken lawsuits seem to have some plausible teeth but will need time to get going and time is short. Perhaps this is why some are holding up 2024 signs at Trump events? Maybe get ready for Trump T.V. and a long campaign against Biden with attacks every night?
It's certainly one of many plausible outcomes. But I've personally underestimated the extent to which Trump will violate norms throughout his presidency. I'm not seeing Trump acting in ways to prepare his base for a concession. I see him encouraging them to believe in his delusional paranoia. He's throwing bombs at anyone who won't support his claims of a massive conspiracy. Now it extends to the FBI and Justice Department. And our cybersecurity experts. Meanwhile, he's taking extraordinary steps to dismantle the civil service, make funds needed for economic stimulus inaccessible, tie HHS up with bureaucratic paperwork when we're in the middle of a pandemic, and doing everything he can to sabotage the Biden administration.

I think it's more probable that he never concedes. He keeps up his rallies and his tweeting and his hollowing out of the government and his sabotage of federal agencies right up until January 20. Then he announces that he's been defrauded of the presidency and announces his run for 2024, doing everything he can to make Biden's presidency fail.

As far as the Krakken lawsuits, you and I have clashed on conspiracy stuff before, and I don't want to replow all that ground again. I don't find the allegations in the Krakken lawsuits credible. However, I have no problem with her trying to prove a claim in court that the Dominion machines have vulnerabilities that should be eliminated. I don't think that's her goal -- but if it has that effect, that's okay by me. I guess we'll have to see what she does with the lawsuits after Biden is inaugurated.
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Re: Election Litigation Status

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And the hits keep coming.

The Trump Campaign has petitioned the Wisconsin Supreme Court to exercise its original jurisdiction over a new suit. The suit asks the Court to declare the certification of the election void and to invalidate three categories of ballots that had been counted: absentee ballots issued in person by clerks in Milwaukee and Dane counties without written applications, absentee ballots with incomplete certifications or on which municipal clerks added information, certain absentee ballots cast by persons claiming Indefinite Confinement status. It also requests a ballot "drawdown" as a result of of alleged legal violations in connection with Madison's "Democracy in the Park" events. A drawdown is a random invalidating of ballots that is sometimes used in connection with election law violations in Wisconsin.

The petition states that it does not present any factual questions for the court to resolve -- just a legal ruling. I don't know whether ballots were segregated into these categories during the recount or whether the number of ballots in each category would have to be determined by election officials after the court rules.

Trump v. Evers: Petition: https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... ctrump.pdf

Plaintiffs in the GA Krakken lawsuit have filed an emergency appeal with the 11th Circuit because the trial court didn't grant all of the emergency injunctive relief they requested. https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... D7F4-1.pdf

ETA: Not sure I understand the Krakken's strategy. They also asked the trial judge to cancel the 12/3 hearing on their request to conduct a forensic examination of the voting machines. They were in a big hurry to conduct the investigation, but now have likely introduced delay. Meanwhile, the judge's stay to preserve the current state of the voting machines until the examination can be conducted is preventing the machine recount Trump demanded from going forward.

Kelly v. PA: Plaintiff has filed a motion for an emergency stay with the U.S. Supreme Court while they are preparing their petition for certiorari.
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Re: Election Litigation Status

Post by subgenius »

cool that we have dropped back from "no evidence of fraud" to the more manageable "unproven conspiracy".
I think it is important to note the following statement from AG William Barr:
“To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election,”
...
Yes, we can infer what we like from "to date", but the important point is that a month ago Barr asked US Attorneys to pursue substantial allegations of "irregularities".
And those irregularities have yielded fraud.
So, those who swore there was no fraud (at all) have retreated back to "unproven conspiracy".
Yes, an amount of fraud that could not "change" the current projected-result, but it is interesting to note that the trail is not at its end yet.
Nevertheless, the reports are now focused on "unproven conspiracy" since claims of "no fraud" is no longer tenable.
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