Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

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_canpakes
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _canpakes »

Ceeboo wrote:No, that's not what Ceeboo is doing. Ceeboo is trying to shine some more light on a specific event that is already glowing in bright neon that is two inches from your pupils.

In other words - I was trying to help.

Ceeboo, be careful. Two inches is much too close to hold your phone from your eyes. : )
_Ceeboo
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _Ceeboo »

canpakes wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:No, that's not what Ceeboo is doing. Ceeboo is trying to shine some more light on a specific event that is already glowing in bright neon that is two inches from your pupils.

In other words - I was trying to help.

Ceeboo, be careful. Two inches is much too close to hold your phone from your eyes. : )

Wait. . . I always thought you were supposed to hold your phone to your ears.

It's your eyes? :)
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Ceeboo wrote:by the way - Among other things, one of the most destructive things that has happened to America is that we no longer think/behave/act like Americans (From many one - one of the most valuable foundational things that made America what it is - the greatest country on the planet) Rather we are now divided into countless hyper conscious groups. . . Asian Americans, African Americans, Latin Americans, Chinese Americans, etc, etc. . . What the hell was wrong with simply American? And the very same thing has happened with social justice - It has had significant and serious negative impacts on this country. Justice ought not have a modifier and when you add one, you dilute, distort and destroy real justice.

This seems simplistic, and it ignores history. There has never been a time in the U.S. when we simply viewed each other as “Americans” without regard to race. From the beginning, black folks were not treated as “Americans.” And even after they were granted citizenship, many areas of the country did not treat them as “Americans.” As folks of other races migrated here, they were identified by race, and not in polite or favorable terms. Through redlining, restrictive covenants, and similar practices, white Americans kept those of other races out of their neighborhoods. They clearly did not see them as just “Americans.”

I think all of these -American designations are a vast improvement over what many white folks used to (in some cases still do) call those groups. In each case, although there is a racial identifier, there is the word “American.” We are all reminded that the guy down the block isn’t just Mexican — He’s a Mexican American.

Frankly, fussing over what other people call themselves seems pretty petty to me.

As for justice, it’s a word like most other words. It has no single meaning and it’s meaning may differ depending on the context. Hell, we’ve used the term “criminal justice” forever, and I’ve never heard that using it somehow “weakens” the word “justice.” Criminal justice is justice in the area of crime and punishment. “Economic justice” is justice in the realm of wealth and income. “Social justice” is justice in the realm of relations between people. None of these terms effect the strength of the word “justice,” whatever you think that means in a vacuum.

This sounds a lot like Dennis Prager. Is it?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Themis
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _Themis »

Ceeboo wrote:Perhaps but I don't think so.

I don't really think they are being ignored per se - I think that their actions/behaviors are viewed as non important or insignificant. The critical thing is the color of their skin, their gender, their sexual orientation, etc. In other words - they are not seen as individuals, they are seen as an example of a victimized group and their specific actions play no role in the most important thing of all - the lens that literlly everything is seen through - freaking identity politics.

I don't see anyone saying they were victims, and they are considered insignificant just like the westboro baptist group who are mostly to all white.

by the way - Among other things, one of the most destructive things that has happened to America is that we no longer think/behave/act like Americans (From many one - one of the most valuable foundational things that made America what it is - the greatest country on the planet) Rather we are now divided into countless hyper conscious groups. . . Asian Americans, African Americans, Latin Americans, Chinese Americans, etc, etc. . . What the hell was wrong with simply American? And the very same thing has happened with social justice - It has had significant and serious negative impacts on this country. Justice ought not have a modifier and when you add one, you dilute, distort and destroy real justice.

Not sure how you can be so blind to all of US history which divided people into racial and social groups with some huge discriminatory policies and laws. Hell even groups like the English and Irish have a long history of hate and violence against each other in the US.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Themis wrote:I don't see anyone saying they were victims, and they are considered insignificant just like the westboro baptist group who are mostly to all white.

Why are they seen as insignificant?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _EAllusion »

Jersey Girl wrote:Why are they seen as insignificant?
Because they have the capacity to influence nothing of importance and are universally regarded as bad. Hateful street preachers are very common and usually just ignored. They occupy a self-contained bubble.
_Themis
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _Themis »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Themis wrote:I don't see anyone saying they were victims, and they are considered insignificant just like the westboro baptist group who are mostly to all white.

Why are they seen as insignificant?


I think EA covered it fairly well.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _EAllusion »

canpakes wrote:Ceeboo has already decided that he’ll vote for Trump regardless of who the opponent is - In other words, without even knowing what the options will be. He stated this in another thread. He Interprets that as sensible thought, so I don’t think that your crazy talk here is going to have an effect on his sensibilities. ; )


Yeah. On top of that, I'm not sure if wishing that America will elect Donald Trump resident due to grievance over someone saying that doing tomahawk chops and mock chanting to a Native American's face is racist is going to do a lot to demonstrate America isn't racist.

The other thing that strikes me here is this is pure identity politics on the part of Ceeboo, and there's a 110% chance he imagines that the problem with his opponents is they're into identity politics while he's not.
_canpakes
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _canpakes »

Ceeboo wrote:
canpakes wrote:Ceeboo, be careful. Two inches is much too close to hold your phone from your eyes.
: )

Wait. . . I always thought you were supposed to hold your phone to your ears.

It's your eyes? :)

By all means, hold it close to your ears. Just don't try to do so at a distance of 2" from your pupils, or you'll have it on the wrong side of the eardrum. o_O
_honorentheos
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Re: Covington Kids Exonerated from Wrong-doing

Post by _honorentheos »

EAllusion wrote:There’s not a lot of room to take a position less “extreme” than mine and not believe they are 100% innocent of all wrong-doing. My super-radical criticism involves stating people should feel bad for being jerks and commit to being better people in the future.

If you don’t think there was a passive agressive stare down or racial taunting, then it is pretty hard to argue they were doing anything wrong.

Does this mean your position no longer includes justification of the national focus on the kids due to the broader national context? Because it certainly seems like there is a lot of space between aruging the kids did nothing wrong and the kids' actions justify the outrage and national attention that occurred. Like, say, agreeing the some of the kids made poor decisions in how they responded to the drumming or in arguing with the Native American telling them that to make American great again they should go back to Europe but that should never have become national news. Space where the journalists acknowledge they were too quick to get out statements that did not follow good journalistic practices or investigate because a MAGA hat worn by a kid in video on social media that turned out to be from a fraudulent Twitter account in South America is breaking news in the same way Trump's wall is a national emergency.

There's a lot of space between your position as you argued it and saying the kids behaved like saints, EA. Most of that space just makes the fact we're aware of it at all part of went wrong and means more people did more wrong in their responses than actually occurred in front of the Lincoln Memorial that day.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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