Since when is being a white supremacist a bad thing?

[_Res Ipsa]

The more troubling thing to me is the question: to what extent should we hold each other to past statements that no longer represent our current thinking. I’d like to think we all have room to change and (maybe) grow over time. If Ajax says he no longer holds to the things he posted on Stormfront, why bring them up? Are we all welded to things we said in the past?

[_Jersey Girl]

No they aren't. Would you like a history lesson?

No, I would not.

You're probably gonna get one before it's all over with.

[_Res Ipsa]

Ajax, you and I are both white. What is this culture that we are supposed to have in common by virtue of our whiteness? What about being white should cause me to feel a kinship with you over non-white folks with whom I have much more in common? This genuinely puzzles me.

[_Jersey Girl]

The more troubling thing to me is the question: to what extent should we hold each other to past statements that no longer represent our current thinking. I’d like to think we all have room to change and (maybe) grow over time. If Ajax says he no longer holds to the things he posted on Stormfront, why bring them up? Are we all welded to things we said in the past?

Ajax expressly states that he renounced the things that he discussed prior. Old words are used to demean, dismiss and disparage him.

Oh and by the way.

Philo Soffee is an apologist.
Bourne is still an uncritical Bishop.
Many or most of you are LDS god believers.
Shades is an enthusiastic missionary.
And, I'm still a Southren Baptist.

[_Jersey Girl]

We'll have to disagree, Jersey.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." -- #MayaAngelou

On the subject of excusing racism and false history, I'll risk accusations of hypocrisy.

Do me a favor and don't sling BS at me like I don't recognize what it is when I see it hitting the screen.

If he showed you who he is via his posts on this board, that should be enough to facilitate argument to the contrary. If someone else showed you who he is via old words posted elsewhere, then it's simply an excuse to marginalize him on this board.

If I showed you who I was 20 years ago, you likely wouldn't believe it. Is there a timer on growth and development or are you a God believer?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ajax, you and I are both white. What is this culture that we are supposed to have in common by virtue of our whiteness? What about being white should cause me to feel a kinship with you over non-white folks with whom I have much more in common? This genuinely puzzles me.

This is a good point. Because from where I'm sitting White people have a long and violent history toward one another, and we certainly didn't exist in a technological vacuum where we created a marvelous society based on our supposed genetic or ethnic or cultural superiority. WASPs looked down on Catholics and 'dusky' Whites in and around the Mediterranean. WASPs murdered the Scots and Irish in droves because they were viewed as vermin. This 'vermin':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stewart_Bell

discovered groundbreaking theories in quantum mechanics (I just so happened to watch a PBS episode today that discussed his contributions to the field). Jews are generally White and are viewed with suspicion to this day by WASPs. Whites gave birth to me and raised me in a space opera cult. Why would I view and value my family, by virtue of their culture or genetics, over Indians, Japanese, Chinese, or Nigerians? I don't really get it.

Now. That said. The American democracy, born out of European ideals, born out of blood, has produced a unique and precious idealism that has spread throughout the world. But it's also laden with evil; there's no other way to describe our heritage. Perhaps it's the duality of human nature, that with good must come bad, and for every amazing thing Westernism, or whatever form of Whiteness Ajax chooses to filter his reality through, produces a form of superstition, unabated resource acquisition, war, deviancy, whatever, is also produced by the same people.

In other words, at what point do the right kind of Whites get a pass? And who are the right kind of Whites?

As an aside, I was downtown today. Most of the people walking around and doing whatever were White. Some were homeless. Some were lower class. Some were clearly upper class. There schleps like me. I can tell you for certain that none of us Whites were particularly interested in one another, and I'm not sure any of us felt any kind of kinship with one another. So, again, I'm not sure what kind of ethnostate Ajax thinks would work, but I'm fairly certain if one were to emerge it'd be just as alienating and unfulfilling as any other society that has existed on earth. That's just human nature.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

The more troubling thing to me is the question: to what extent should we hold each other to past statements that no longer represent our current thinking. I’d like to think we all have room to change and (maybe) grow over time. If Ajax says he no longer holds to the things he posted on Stormfront, why bring them up? Are we all welded to things we said in the past?

This would be a fair point in the abstract, but Ajax18 has an extensive history of lying about his and other people's views for rhetorical purposes. He misled about things I've said in this first post and in another post on this thread. The pattern is clear enough to know it's not a simple innocent mistake. He also posted on Stormfront after he allegedly disavowed those views quite racist things while also claiming ideological kinship with the board. Him doing this isn't even mysterious because he has helpfully endorsed on Stormfront the need to play with the truth because he feels embattled with the broader culture. Nazis and other white supremacists have a long history of that attitude, so it isn't surprising, but it makes it difficult to interact with.

He replied to the opening post of this thread concerning a Congressman defending the honor of being a white supremacist by going into a rant about supposed leftists like myself will let the Jewish state have its walls, so why can't he have his? Then he stated that, " I've never considered any race of people to have fewer God given rights than another." His Stormfront history shows what an empty or deceitful statement that is when "God given rights" don't include basic human rights. Again, this is a person who has advocated genocide and coerced eugenics. At a minimum, it's awfully tempting to point out that fact. Either "never" is not true or "God given rights" is a weasel term.

[_EAllusion]

"I've never said X and you can't prove otherwise so long as you're not allowed to quote the places where I said X, which would be unfair stalking."

[_EAllusion]

"Whiteness" has traditionally been defined in terms of racial exclusion and superiority rather than having any cultural content unto itself. It's an in-group / out-group term of very recent origin. That's what all that "whiteness" academic writing is about for people who flip out at the idea of the term. Benign ethnic pride among whites usually goes to specific nationalities like "Irish" "German" "French" etc. Even that can get people into weird racialist thinking where ethnic identity and stereotypes are destiny, but at least there is a benign version of cultural interest. White supremacy is what it sounds like.

Ajax18 doesn't defend any specific content of "white supremacy" here because for him it is all about its most toxic meaning.

[_Res Ipsa]

"Whiteness" has traditionally been defined in terms of racial exclusion and superiority rather than having any cultural content unto itself. It's an in-group / out-group term of very recent origin. That's what all that "whiteness" academic writing is about for people who flip out at the idea of the term. Benign ethnic pride among whites usually goes to specific nationalities like "Irish" "German" "French" etc. Even that can get people into weird racialist thinking where ethnic identity and stereotypes are destiny, but at least there is a benign version of cultural interest. White supremacy is what it sounds like.

Ajax18 doesn't defend any specific content of "white supremacy" here because for him it is all about its most toxic meaning.

Do you agree, Ajax? Or can you give me a specific description of what white culture is?