Mcabe admits plan to oust Trump

[_Markk]

Markk, you haven’t shown what they are “taking.” We know they are paying FICA, which they will never see. Medicare, which they will never see. They pay for schools the same way citizens of the state pay. They are not eligible for TANF, not eligible for SNAP. Did you even look at the link I posted.

What’s really weird is thinking that if property taxes doubled, landlords wouldn’t raise rent.

hey ,

I did, they take services, they take education, medical, while generally not earning enough to better their communities. If there are 7 million illegal folks in the US, then they would receive every thing is a state the size of Massachusetts...all infrastructures, services, schools, etc. maybe that will put it into perspective. Also much of the money goes back across the border. Take a walk in these business districts and you would be shocked how many offer money gram type of service.

There is a reason why services in say in South Orange County, exceed the services of say Boyle heights (East LA). There is a reason why areas with high populations of illegal immigrants are crap holes that not one of you guys would live in, nor I doubt know how these folks live.

Maybe it is becasue of where I live, but I have seen once thriving nice middle class communities, turn into crap holes becasue of illegal immigrants. I am not saying most are not good people, they are, I am saying that they put a strain on our economy. You can site all the studies you like, but if you want to see for yourself come to So Cal and I'll give you a tour.

Where do you live Res Ipsa?

[_Markk]

[Poor] legal immigrants tend to cost more in tax payer services than they pay in in gen 1, but this is by far offset by the net benefit of their progeny's add to the economy. That's why analyses by anti-immigrant think tanks tend to present this variable in isolation rather than looking at lifecycle costs as you see in academic research. Illegal immigration is a different beast because they have a more difficult time accessing some expensive government services they pay into with various taxes.

I don't know why this is so counter-intuitive for people, but it is. We're a nation of immigrants. I don't know how they imagine we got wealthy.

Is it fair to say there has to be a line where it tips the balance, and where is that line? Is it fair to say when communities regress at a very high rate due to high influx of immigration, the line has been crossed.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'd like to apologize up front for blowing in here but I'm not sorry.

I am very close to this issue living where I do and managing scores of illegal workers daily...and believe me when I tell you they know how to milk the system. They know if they claim 7 vs 1 or 2 they have less taken out of their checks. They know if their wives tell the gov there husband left them, they get child benfits like WICA and free food programs. and they know what to say in a emergency room to get free care.

It's WIC.

One doesn't need to be a liar to receive benefits. Even women whose husbands are living in the home and their children receive WIC.

When's the last time that you applied for WIC? Do you think the USDA Food Program is the best thing going or something?

Please.

[_Jersey Girl]

Markk, you haven’t shown what they are “taking.” We know they are paying FICA, which they will never see. Medicare, which they will never see. They pay for schools the same way citizens of the state pay. They are not eligible for TANF, not eligible for SNAP. Did you even look at the link I posted.

What’s really weird is thinking that if property taxes doubled, landlords wouldn’t raise rent.

hey ,

I did, they take services, they take education, medical, while generally not earning enough to better their communities. If there are 7 million illegal folks in the US, then they would receive every thing is a state the size of Massachusetts...all infrastructures, services, schools, etc. maybe that will put it into perspective. Also much of the money goes back across the border. Take a walk in these business districts and you would be shocked how many offer money gram type of service.

They aren't earning enough to better their communities but much of the money goes back across the border.

There is a reason why services in say in South Orange County, exceed the services of say Boyle heights (East LA). There is a reason why areas with high populations of illegal immigrants are crap holes that not one of you guys would live in, nor I doubt know how these folks live.

My widowed twice great grandmother lived in the crap hole that was Newark and she eventually did well for herself, her children and her grandchildren just as every immigrant hopes they will. If they work for less than minimum wage, don't earn enough to better their communities (your words) where exactly do you think they'd be living? Out in the suburbs in tract homes?

Maybe it is becasue of where I live, but I have seen once thriving nice middle class communities, turn into crap holes becasue of illegal immigrants. I am not saying most are not good people, they are, I am saying that they put a strain on our economy. You can site all the studies you like, but if you want to see for yourself come to So Cal and I'll give you a tour.

I grew up in a shithole. Maybe you should find a kinder and more generous heart for the people. I didn't do so bad for myself. With the right kind of help, they will do okay too. You don't want to see people do better?

Where do you live Res Ipsa?

What possible difference does it make where he lives? Do you think you have special insight?

You who cannot figure out that low income persons live in what they can damned afford?

[_Markk]

My widowed twice great grandmother lived in the ____ hole that was Newark and she eventually did well for herself, her children and her grandchildren just as every immigrant hopes they will. If they work for less than minimum wage, don't earn enough to better their communities (your words) where exactly do you think they'd be living? Out in the suburbs in tract homes?

Maybe it is becasue of where I live, but I have seen once thriving nice middle class communities, turn into crap holes becasue of illegal immigrants. I am not saying most are not good people, they are, I am saying that they put a strain on our economy. You can site all the studies you like, but if you want to see for yourself come to So Cal and I'll give you a tour.

I grew up in a ____. Maybe you should find a kinder and more generous heart for the people. I didn't do so bad for myself. With the right kind of help, they will do okay too. You don't want to see people do better?

Where do you live Res Ipsa?

What possible difference does it make where he lives? Do you think you have special insight?

You who cannot figure out that low income persons live in what they can ____ afford?

LOL is it better to ignore the issue and pretend these places are nice?

I have good friends that are illegal. I have neighbors in a rental across the street that are illegal who currently have a box spring in their front yard that I will have to take to the dump soon, as soon as I can't stand it anymore. And I live in a neighborhood, because I choose to, that many would consider a crap hole, which 30 years ago when I bought it was very nice place, where I raised my family. You have no idea what you are even saying or what is happening in border cities Jersey Girl, it is not a bad thing, but a fact.

And yes their communities are falling apart, in that they are primarily rentals, and many are crowded in homes and apartments to share rent, and do send part of their income home. Your even questioning this shows your ignorance of what is happening here.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/02/news/e ... index.html

And Yes, I have a pretty good insight of living in this type of community...do you know what it is like living and working near Mexico for 60 plus years.

[_EAllusion]

Is it fair to say there has to be a line where it tips the balance, and where is that line? Is it fair to say when communities regress at a very high rate due to high influx of immigration, the line has been crossed.

Nativists do tend to think that immigration is causing their world to go to hell in a handbasket. That's been a theme since before the Know-Nothings. Only, that's not what has happened or is happening. That's where it helps to go beyond your gut and and anecdotes and see what research indicates.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Is it fair to say there has to be a line where it tips the balance, and where is that line? Is it fair to say when communities regress at a very high rate due to high influx of immigration, the line has been crossed.

Nativists do tend to think that immigration is causing their world to go to hell in a handbasket. That's been a theme since before the Know-Nothings. Only, that's not what has happened or is happening. That's where it helps to go beyond your gut and and anecdotes and see what research indicates.

So, the Know-Nothings are your line in the sand? There are myriad examples where mass immigration alters the worlds of natives horrifically thus creating nativists, and with good reason. Markk's personal experience isn't subjective if he's experienced a decline in quality of life. How one balances the reality that people live versus what the data suggests is happening, purportedly, is another.

Make the argument that Markk's life is better after 60 years of mass illegal immigration. Otherwise he'll remain unmoved.

- Doc

[_Markk]

Is it fair to say there has to be a line where it tips the balance, and where is that line? Is it fair to say when communities regress at a very high rate due to high influx of immigration, the line has been crossed.

Nativists do tend to think that immigration is causing their world to go to hell in a handbasket. That's been a theme since before the Know-Nothings. Only, that's not what has happened or is happening. That's where it helps to go beyond your gut and and anecdotes and see what research indicates.

..

So then, while totally ignoring my question, is it safe to say that you believe that if we just opened up the border and let anyone in who wanted to enter, no limit to their number, our economy and infrastructures could absorb it and thrive?

Do you believe in a open border, that anyone from any country can enter and live here as they please? But in any case, don't mind me. I used to be an Irishman.

[_EAllusion]

So, the Know-Nothings are your line in the sand? There are myriad examples where mass immigration alters the worlds of natives horrifically thus creating nativists, and with good reason. Markk's personal experience isn't subjective if he's experienced a decline in quality of life. How one balances the reality that people live versus what the data suggests is happening, purportedly, is another.

Make the argument that Markk's life is better after 60 years of mass illegal immigration. Otherwise he'll remain unmoved.

- Doc

Point being that there has always been people in America opposed to immigration who were shouting from the roof-tops that immigration was destroying America both culturally and economically. They were, every single time, wrong. If nothing else, this should create some humility in a person armed with his anecdotal experience insisting that no, for reals, immigration has crossed the line this time despite what economists high in their ivory towers will tell you.

Nativism tends to arise from xenophobia, not intellectual understanding of the global effects of immigration on a society. I can't speak to Markk's life specifically and it is really difficult to drill down abstract effects like the significantly larger GDP growth or better dietary options to the experience of a single person. Know-Nothings will tell you the Irish made their life worse, no doubt, but we know the Irish weren't making America worse off.

[_Jersey Girl]

LOL is it better to ignore the issue and pretend these places are nice?

Show me anywhere in my comments where I said or implied that we should pretend these places are nice.

Quote me.