Anyone following the Tom Brady Divorce?

[Some Schmo]

Upon reflection, it occurs to me that what bothers me about the term "The GOAT" is not so much the "GOAT" as the "The." When a person says that, they are declaring that he's the greatest player to them. As I said upthread, there's no definitive answer to the question, "Who's The GOAT?" It depends on an individual's personal criteria. The whole thing is a matter of opinion. It's like declaring someone the most beautiful woman in the world. Oh yeah, to whom?

I'd be fine with it if people referred to anyone as "My GOAT" as that would be a far more accurate reflection of the idea they're conveying. You know, just like "My God."

[Vēritās]

OK, you need to explain how you define GOAT then. I mean good Lord, if what he's accomplished doesn't qualify, I don't know what does.

I define it based on talent, not championships.

Well, this isn't really an argument then because it is just a subjective assertion. "Talent" in terms of arm strength and accuracy doesn't really mean anything unless you can produce on the field. Marino had ample opportunity to win it all during his tenure but he always came up short and it was never due to a lack of supporting talent, so that's where leadership and instinct come into play and that's just something you can't coach. People either have it or they don't, and Brady has that. But having said that, Brady could make any throw Marino could.

Brady certainly wasn't the greatest last Monday, and Monday is part of "all time."

One game? Brady had 350 yds, two TDs and 1 Int. Not exactly the worst stats for a QB. By contrast, Marino threw for over 300 yds only twice in his final season and his last game was a complete disaster, losing a playoff game 62-7. Marino only had 95 yds throwing and two interceptions. Brady threw for nearly 5,000 yds in his 22nd year playing in the NFL. That's just insane.

Would Brady have had his career success on every other team (or any other team, for that matter)? Highly doubtful.

Based on what? He won six super bowls with the Patriots and as soon as he left the team flat out sucked. Not only that, but he goes to Tampa Bay in his 20th season and gives them their first Superbowl win in nearly 20 years.

He was the beneficiary of a great coaching staff and system. No doubt, he made the most of it, but it was circumstances more than his individual talent that led to all that success.

I think hindsight is 20/20 and the evidence seems clear it was Belichick who benefited the most from Brady, not the other way around.

When the Patriots beat Seattle, it was their defense that made the critical play. Without the Patriot defense, Seattle's a 2 time winner.

And so Brady would only have six super bowl rings instead of seven? That's still six more than Marino. Again, that's just one game, and Brady still threw 4 touchdowns in that game. What about the comeback against Atlanta? Brady leads all time for 4th quarter comeback wins. That's what sets him apart. He is the most clutch QB in NFL history, hands down. If you're life depends on winning a Superbowl, you want Tom Brady in his prime over anyone else.

I think if someone like Dan Marino was in the Patriots' system all those years, they'd have been even better.

Then it is weird how the Patriot's system couldn't win any Superbowl's before or after Brady.

The other thing that bugs me about the label "GOAT" is that the game has changed significantly over its history. It is WAY more QB/offense friendly today than it was even 20 years ago. You could absolutely blast a QB in the pocket back then, but these days, you can't even land on top of them on a sack.

That's not exactly a fair comparison because when Marino was playing football the biggest guys on defense were much, much smaller. Today's NFL defenses are fielding players that are much larger and faster than what Marino was up against.

I'm not a Patriots fan. I grew up idolizing Marino and Montana for the most part, but I also played football and have experience coaching, so I'm looking at this from a different perspective.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I mean, Leftwich had Brady throw the ball 66 times. No running game, at all. Dallas could just sit in a zone and cover 3 all day because there was no run game.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

...it is just a subjective assertion.

This is pretty much my whole point. GOAT is just a subjective assertion. It depends on what someone means by "the greatest." You've explained some of your criteria for why you think he is the greatest. Good. You're entitled to it.

If you want to say "Brady has won more championships than anyone else," or "Brady has more touchdown passes than anyone," then fine. Those are facts that are indisputable. But to go from that to "the greatest" is too big a leap for me.

It's not like I don't understand why many people think he's the greatest. I'm just not one of them. When I hear people call him the GOAT, I cringe. That's all.

I mean, my criteria could be as simple as, "Who's the most entertaining QB?" (I'm not saying it is). By that standard, Brady doesn't make the top 50, for me.

[Some Schmo]

I mean, Leftwich had Brady throw the ball 66 times. No running game, at all. Dallas could just sit in a zone and cover 3 all day because there was no run game.

- Doc

Wait, are you saying the system around him has to be good for him to succeed? The devil, you say!

I'm sitting here trying to imagine Brady's career if he were drafted by Detroit.

[Some Schmo]

Then it is weird how the Patriot's system couldn't win any Superbowl's before or after Brady.

I'll grant you, Brady's better than Mac Jones. At least so far.

[Marcus]

My theory is that Brady brought to the field a coach's brain. A really, really SMART coach's brain. He shaved seconds off every situation where fast decision-making could make the dfference. Those moments added up.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I mean, Leftwich had Brady throw the ball 66 times. No running game, at all. Dallas could just sit in a zone and cover 3 all day because there was no run game.

- Doc

Wait, are you saying the system around him has to be good for him to succeed? The devil, you say!

I'm sitting here trying to imagine Brady's career if he were drafted by Detroit.

It’s football. Every team is the sum of its parts. Too bad we can’t get news from a parallel universe where Drew Bledsoe helmed the Patriots for another 10-15 in order to put your notion to the test. Then again, the Pats haven’t looked so great for the last three years so

[Some Schmo]

It’s football. Every team is the sum of its parts. Too bad we can’t get news from a parallel universe where Drew Bledsoe helmed the Patriots for another 10-15 in order to put your notion to the test. Then again, the Pats haven’t looked so great for the last three years so

Mac Jones is competitive, and their division is the strongest it's been in the Belichick era. The Pats benefitted from being in a weak division for years.

I mean, you guys are judging the three years since Brady left. There was a 10 year span Brady went without a ring in New England.

Part of his legacy is his longevity (and I certainly give Brady credit for that, not to mention his work ethic). He's just been around so long, he's done a lot. Elton John's been around forever, but I wouldn't call him the GOAT.

[Father Francis]

The GOAT doesn't cheat.

Tom Brady's arrogance is beyond the level of fratboy who never matured. His career just might end in a sad series of sacks, like the ones that shook Brett Favre. He also betrayed his long time team in ways that can only be ego based. He threw away his marriage for a couple more years of football. Not to mention people will target him for sacks, just like Favre.