The Court Just Sealed Everyone’s Fate, Including Its Own

[Moksha]

Even so, we do have a 4 year experience where your parade of horribles didn't happen.

Donald Trump knows better than to have naysayers on his staff and cabinet anymore. The new people will make his desires happen.

Besides, forget history and think of the wonders of Camelot.

[Res Ipsa]

Thanks, Gunnar. As usual, you are far too kind.

[Moksha]

Per a quick check on Google, the first impeachment charges were abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. I think that's kind of vague.

Give me dirt on my opponent and I might give you this Congressionally approved aid. Republicans would tell you that this quid pro quo was simply righteous horse-trading. They would not find fault unless someone not of their party did it. Dr. Peterson would bless this as relative morality, so your first assumptions could be considered correct and this huffery could be regarded as an exercise in futility. It did not even rise to the level of a network-broadcasted shooting on 5th Avenue, which still would not earn Republican condemnation.

[yellowstone123]

Per a quick check on Google, the first impeachment charges were abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. I think that's kind of vague.

Give me dirt on my opponent and I might give you this Congressionally approved aid. Republicans would tell you that this quid pro quo was simply righteous horse-trading. They would not find fault unless someone not of their party did it. Dr. Peterson would bless this as relative morality, so your first assumptions could be considered correct and this huffery could be regarded as an exercise in futility. It did not even rise to the level of a network-broadcasted shooting on 5th Avenue, which still would not earn Republican condemnation.

Thanks Res Ipsa for your thoughts. Here's my political rant:

Thanks to Rep Ipsa and Gunnar for your post. I did see your thoughts on the President of the Ukraine and Trump wanting his cronies to do their type of investigation. I wasn’t current then and now I’m just reading it.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics ... index.html

I’m not sure if I see what everyone else sees. Trying to get information on a political rival is likely fair game. What is the line you will not cross to find out information on a political opponent? I’ll add and point out that there are a lot of political opponents in the primary in the same party but the type of scrutiny one puts on someone within your own party may not be done in the general election with an opponent. VP Harris was screaming about Biden and his issues with busing in the ‘70s. (Google: Joe Biden, Busing, Washington Post.) Nixon apparently didn’t have such a line and look what happened there.

How would Trump and his cronies do the investigation in the Ukraine? I’m not sure. On second thought, I’m pretty sure I would know how they would do it. There are those like Roger Stone who ended Elliot Spitzer’s political aspirations with one phone call. He also helped create a mini riot in Miami when the 2000 recount was being done, and might have had some influence in the outcome; he has a big tattoo of Nixon on his back. Steven Bannon, like Nixon, doesn’t understand drawing lines. Paul Manafort, John Bolton – war monger and Mr. Military Industrial Complex himself, Rudi Giuliani and his connections in all areas, good and bad. But like a fly to a fire, these guys flow in the direction of power and money. it’s a weakness of all humans.

Many times, when doing an investigation correctly you are scared of where you are and what you are reading. I don’t think Trump’s cronies would put themselves in that position. Especially in that area and the horror that has occurred over the last 200 years in Ukraine.

I’m not even sure his guys could get the information if they wanted it. The CIA is there. Trump can ask for a briefing from the person in charge. If the information is there and rises to a level of a crime, then it’s there; if not, drop it. Stop beating a dead horse. Could the CIA get information for a sitting president on his political rival if crimes were done by the rival and family that a Federal Judge could take jurisdiction and make rulings? I don’t know.

Biden and his son, Hunter: I think Rep Ipsa has read tons more research than I have but what if Trump’s son in-law were in the same situation, and the information that has come out about Hunter Biden were about Mr. Kushner? I don’t think he would have been given a light treatment by the press. And then there’s the tape of Biden talking about getting a prosecutor in the Ukraine fired, one who was investigating the firm his son had a financial interest in, but an article written by Courtney Subramanian in a 2019 USA article wrote:

"It wasn't because Shokin was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden's son; it was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe."

Many people do not like Trump. Both my older sister and I voted for him the first time, but it became quickly clear that it was a mistake. Nikki Halley, appointed to represent the United States at the United Nations quickly saw the writing on the wall and resigned from the Trump administration - saying something like “were counting votes and taking names” didn’t appeal to her in the long run. I still say she should be on the Republican ticket. Who cares if she had some slips? Look at Joe Biden and busing.

Would the Clinton machine have done worse? There is a possibility as Bill’s influence was going to be there. A super big possibility. And for me I always say it’s a machine. It’s the Biden machine: His appointments, who they hire, and the policies they create and enforce.

The Trump gen 2 machine scares me. Who would work for him? A.I. terminator like skeletons? Look at his face in the trial in New York, at least the ones that the media is publishing. I just don’t see how he is a viable candidate with all these criminal proceedings going on when he should be campaigning, but what is happening today are the consequences of his knucklehead choices.

After New York, I think Georgia wants him or some of his cronies in court. The same thing in Arizona. If somehow he enters the White House again as president, I think another impeachment will come forth and this time the Republicans will be on board. There’s too much there before, during, and after Trump’s first term in office for Republicans to say nothing is there. For me the Republicans have always been a lot fairer than the other party. They just need the evidence. They went after Nixon. I think Democrats would do like they did with Bill Clinton and vote party lines. The evidence of perjury by President Clinton was there. Paula Jones accepted an $850,000 settlement. He lost the ability to practice law in Arkansas for five years. It wasn’t hearsay.

Finally, I heard that the way upper-middle class women vote in Arizona will be how the country will vote. This will go on for decades. It happened in 2020 and now we can see if it happens in 2024.

Addendum: Why Ron DeSantis and Nikki Halley left with the leading Republican candidate facing criminal charges in multiple states is beyond me. There must be religious cults and political ones too. By doing what they are doing Republicans are being left out in the cold.

2nd Addendum: Let me add that those who Christ talked about, the poor, the sick, and the captives are better cared for under a demoncratic administration. Let me add that a socialist agenda brought forth by Golda Meir, one of my heroes, would take care of them better than a democratic administration.

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hres ... 755enr.pdf

My political rant completed. The End.

[Res Ipsa]

Righteous rant!

[honorentheos]

Threatening to withhold US aid (not his own money) is not fair game. That's using the office of President for personal profit. You know, the thing he keeps claiming Joe Biden did.

It's one thing about Trump you can appreciate. He inevitably tells you what he's doing because he can't help but accuse others of doing it as part of the process of justifying doing it.

[huckelberry]

Threatening to withhold US aid (not his own money) is not fair game. That's using the office of President for personal profit. You know, the thing he keeps claiming Joe Biden did.

It's one thing about Trump you can appreciate. He inevitably tells you what he's doing because he can't help but accuse others of doing it as part of the process of justifying doing it.

If one just reads the copy of the telephone conversation with Trump, I can see what Yellowstone saw: Asking for possible dirt as a natural part of the political process. But there are the comments about other people who will be contacting. The complaint legally was about holding back authorized help on condition of providing dirt. This particular conversation does not include that, though it could be a set up for that. Conditions explained later by go-betweens. I do not have the proof; just pointing out the actual accusation for impeachment. I can see both guilt and degree of bad act is a judgement call; the Senate of course had to make that call.

[honorentheos]

There was this hilarious moment with then-Trump supporter Chris Christie I think is worth remembering:

https://www-mediaite-com.cdn.ampproject ... ASCAAgM%3D

During the 7 a.m. hour, host George Stephanopoulos turned to the exiled Trump transition leader to opine on “how serious a threat” the eventual release of the transcript presents to the President.

Christie immediately downplayed the significance and dismissed the “seismic reaction” that Democrats are having, calling it an “overreaction.”

Stephanopoulos pressed his guest saying “if the president of the United States was encouraging a foreign leader to investigate a political rival, that is arguably an impeachable offense.”

But Christie brought up context to better understand what would be in the transcript before painting what would ostensibly be worst-case scenario.

“For instance, if he’s saying, listen, do me a favor, go investigate Joe Biden, that’s one thing,” Christie offered, adding “If he’s saying, listen, I’m concerned about corruption, you’ve just gotten elected. we send hundreds of millions of dollars over there, you need to start looking at this, for instance, one of the things that occurred was the Hunter Biden situation, that becomes totally different.”

Guess what phrase the transcript included?

[Moksha]

Had Ukraine capitulated to the blackmail and manufactured some dirt on Hunter Biden or simply backed the Russian-manufactured stuff, the situation would have been different and there might be more ketchup and taco salad stains on the Oval Office walls today. I think Lev and Igor would be new hires at the RNC.

So will the Supreme Court seal our fate?

[Dr Exiled]

1. This an many other reasons is why I am for RFK, Jr.
2. We aren't in a democracy, but a constitutional republic. Even so, we do have a 4 year experience where your parade of horribles didn't happen. This is more fear mongering, it seems to me.
3. This is why the constitution didn't give the people more power over the day to day governing issues. The founders were afraid of mob rule as well and set out a plan to have power remain with the landowners. This why originally the Senate was elected by the state legislators and why the Senate has the more power than the house in the constitutional scheme.

You're equivocating on the term "democracy." We all know that democracy comes in several flavors, only one of which is "direct democracy." You are reacting to the term "democracy" as if Gadianton had said "direct democracy." But you should know better from context. Pretending that "democracy" and "constitutional republic" are somehow mutually exclusive is pure nonsense. Our federal and state governments are "constitutional" because we have constitutions. Our federal government, but not our states, are a "Republic" because Congress and the President are elected by State. Both are also representative democracies because the people elect representatives to govern, as opposed to directly voting on legislation. Although many states also have an element of direct democracy in the form of initiatives.

Rejecting "democracy" as a description of our country is a false, right-wing talking point.

The Constitution is a balance between the power of the people to control the government and the power of the government to prevent mob rule. Neglecting one side of that balance or the other is madness.

I'm not trying to deceive anyone. https://pediaa.com/what-is-the-differen ... -republic/ Calm down. Saint Biden is still the president and is still too old to be prosecuted.