For the Trump voters:

[Kishkumen]

The definition of low information voter is one that consumes FOX news AND is not a college graduate.

Nope. ‘And is not a college graduate’ is the straw man you constructed to serve your own purposes. Like that one guy said, “argue better”. : )

As Schmo points out upstream, a low information voter might simply be one deciding to insulate themself from easily obtained facts. As example: consider someone claiming that Biden is waging a war on oil and that this imagined war has affected the inflation of fuel pricing. Truth is, we are currently producing more crude oil in the US than at any time in our history. ‘Any time in our history’ also includes the Trump years.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=M

If that person is given this information and a link to it and more, but continues to make the same claim while presenting no facts (alternative or otherwise) in support of the claim, then that person could be considered a low information voter, whether they’re college-educated or not.

Excellent explanation, canpakes!

[ajax18]

1. Red states set aside the popular vote to send Trump electors to the electoral ballot count.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to the 2020 election and what Mike Pence refused to do? That's against the law now. It wasn't when Trump did this in 2020.

2. Trump runs for a third term because he had a break between his two terms.

I don't know anyone who wants this. We have JD Vance as the next leader of the American First movement.

3. Trump pardons J6 insurrectionists.

I think many of the sentences for the J6 defendants were excessive and completely out of proportion to those of other trespassers. They were made excessively harsh for partisan political reasons. Yes, I'd like to the sentences commuted to a proportionate level with the crimes of individuals who are not politically conservative. I'd also be in favor of Steve Bannon, Peter Navarro, and all other political prisoners being pardoned on day one.

4. Trump fires everyone in the Executive Branch and replaces them with his own people.

The partisan political deep state will have to go. I'm not necessarily advocating for vengeance provided the left learns its lesson not to weaponize the justice system for political purposes. If you believe that specious and novel legal theories enforced for partisan political purposes is an acceptable way to stop a politician who you disagree with but can't defeat at the ballot box, then perhaps the left needs a taste of its own medicine to help them gain some perspective and self awareness. If Trump loses than the left will continue to employ this method of defeating their political opponents and nobody in the future will likely ever stop them. And that is the real end to democracy in American

What I don't understand is exactly what do you fear happening if Donald Trump is elected? How exactly are you harmed if some of the J6 defendants are released earlier? What if Trump puts tariffs on Chinese goods or enforces the southern border? How does that hurt you? You're not on welfare. You're not in the country illegally. I assume you're not employing anyone in the country illegally. You work a job. You're not a welfare queen. You respect my right to teach my children that homosexuality is a sin. Am I wrong? The only thing a Trump election will mean for you is a better economy with more take home pay. Have you moved out of Florida yet? Is your life really that much worse there because of DeSantis?

[Kishkumen]

What I don't understand is exactly what do you fear happening if Donald Trump is elected? How exactly are you harmed if some of the J6 defendants are released earlier? What if Trump puts tariffs on Chinese goods or enforces the southern border? How does that hurt you? You're not on welfare. You're not in the country illegally. I assume you're not employing anyone in the country illegally. You work a job. You're not a welfare queen. You respect my right to teach my children that homosexuality is a sin. Am I wrong? The only thing a Trump election will mean for you is a better economy with more take home pay. Have you moved out of Florida yet? Is your life really that much worse there because of DeSantis?

The devil is in the details, ajax18. I am strongly opposed to Project 2025, which Trump people wrote as their plan for Trump’s next term. I am strongly opposed to aspects of Trump’s platform, much of which he wrote himself. His plans to incarcerate and deport undocumented immigrants en masse is reckless and stupid. I agree that the border and citizenship should be robust and meaningful, but Trump’s solutions area are stupid and reckless. I would not oppose your right to teach your kids as you deem fit. I have a job, but the GOP-controlled government stole our faculty tenure, which we earned, thus making my employment precarious.

[Res Ipsa]

What I don't understand is exactly what do you fear happening if Donald Trump is elected? How exactly are you harmed if some of the J6 defendants are released earlier? What if Trump puts tariffs on Chinese goods or enforces the southern border? How does that hurt you? You're not on welfare. You're not in the country illegally. I assume you're not employing anyone in the country illegally. You work a job. You're not a welfare queen. You respect my right to teach my children that homosexuality is a sin. Am I wrong? The only thing a Trump election will mean for you is a better economy with more take home pay. Have you moved out of Florida yet? Is your life really that much worse there because of DeSantis?

The devil is in the details, ajax18. I am strongly opposed to Project 2025, which Trump people wrote as their plan for Trump’s next term. I am strongly opposed to aspects of Trump’s platform, much of which he wrote himself. His plans to incarcerate and deport undocumented immigrants en masse is reckless and stupid. I agree that the border and citizenship should be robust and meaningful, but Trump’s solutions area are stupid and reckless. I would not oppose your right to teach your kids as you deem fit. I have a job, but the GOP-controlled government stole our faculty tenure, which we earned, thus making my employment precarious.

Trump at one point had his own website titled "Project 2024." It included suing private universities to take their endowment funds and using those to create a network of "American Academies" controlled by the Federal government to completely replace Universities, public and private.

[Kishkumen]

Trump at one point had his own website titled "Project 2024." It included suing private universities to take their endowment funds and using those to create a network of "American Academies" controlled by the Federal government to completely replace Universities, public and private.

I don't doubt it, as I believe Trump really is a fascist. By fascist, I refer to the atavistic, populist-informed statism that would lead to such plans for the educational system. Business owners would love it. Ideologues on the right would love it. It would be disastrous for freedom of thought and expression.

My view of fascism is strongly informed by the ideas of Umberto Ecco:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umb ... scism.html

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

[ajax18]

His plans to incarcerate and deport undocumented immigrants en masse is reckless and stupid.

But you're not an undocumented immigrant. If you feel that more needs to be done to help them, why not just logon to Western Union and send money directly to Latin America yourself? Why isn't it up to the American taxpayer to decide how many and which immigrants should be permitted to enter the country through democratically established law? How are you respecting democracy and the rule of law when you say that American voters are economically illiterate and racist for setting a limit to the number of immigrants entering the country and seek to bypass and disobey democratically established law any way you can get away with?

[Kishkumen]

But you're not an undocumented immigrant. If you feel that more needs to be done to help them, why not just logon to Western Union and send money directly to Latin America yourself? Why isn't it up to the American taxpayer to decide how many and which immigrants should be permitted to enter the country through democratically established law? How are you respecting democracy and the rule of law when you say that American voters are economically illiterate and racist for setting a limit to the number of immigrants entering the country and seek to bypass and disobey democratically established law any way you can get away with?

Try, please, to stick to one topic at a time, and I also ask that you not spray me with your assumptions about my views. Binger would call what you just did “lying,” but I will refrain from provocative and inaccurate rhetoric.

I do not believe that a future Trump administration will have the ability to deport undocumented immigrants on a massive scale with out causing massive economic and social chaos, not to mention violating the human rights of immigrants and citizens. I don’t think they have earned a second bite at this apple.

I also never said anything about denying voters a voice in determining immigration policy. They exercise such a voice every time they vote for a candidate with particular views on the matter. Unfortunately, almost all attempts to legislate the issue have been blocked or stopped, even legislation that practically handed GOP legislators most of what they asked for. Were it not for Trump commanding them not to pass that legislation, we would have had one of the toughest and most conservative immigration laws of recent history being applied right now.

So, I really don’t put too much stock in your sincerity. The truth is that you don’t care about sensible and lawful results. You care about Trump and the prospect of a draconian and lawless Trump administration that makes people you don’t like suffer. That’s my take on your political views after watching you post here for many years.

[Doctor Steuss]

His plans to incarcerate and deport undocumented immigrants en masse is reckless and stupid.

But you're not an undocumented immigrant. If you feel that more needs to be done to help them, why not just logon to Western Union and send money directly to Latin America yourself? Why isn't it up to the American taxpayer to decide how many and which immigrants should be permitted to enter the country through democratically established law? How are you respecting democracy and the rule of law when you say that American voters are economically illiterate and racist for setting a limit to the number of immigrants entering the country and seek to bypass and disobey democratically established law any way you can get away with?

The wildest thing about this post is remembering your other posts about the Immigration Reform Bill.

Incidentally, there about 4 million cases currently in backlog. Those people cannot be legally deported until their hearing. A mass roundup would similarly add cases, and backlog, and timeline waiting.

Guess what would have drastically reduced this backlog, allowing the government to legally deport the vast majority of these people, as well as quickly deport others?

I'll give you a hint. Trump got the Republican party to vote against it.

[ajax18]

But you're not an undocumented immigrant. If you feel that more needs to be done to help them, why not just logon to Western Union and send money directly to Latin America yourself? Why isn't it up to the American taxpayer to decide how many and which immigrants should be permitted to enter the country through democratically established law? How are you respecting democracy and the rule of law when you say that American voters are economically illiterate and racist for setting a limit to the number of immigrants entering the country and seek to bypass and disobey democratically established law any way you can get away with?

The wildest thing about this post is remembering your other posts about the Immigration Reform Bill.

Incidentally, there about 4 million cases currently in backlog. Those people cannot be legally deported until their hearing. A mass roundup would similarly add cases, and backlog, and timeline waiting.

Guess what would have drastically reduced this backlog, allowing the government to legally deport the vast majority of these people, as well as quickly deport others?

I'll give you a hint. Trump got the Republican party to vote against it.

You're free to donate as much of your paycheck as you want. It's when you give away my paycheck that I have a problem with. In fact I don't think you should have any right to give away what I earn. It's a flaw in democracy that private property is no longer respected. It should have never happened but as long as it does open borders will continue to drive down the American standard of living.

[Kishkumen]

You're free to donate as much of your paycheck as you want. It's when you give away my paycheck that I have a problem with. In fact I don't think you should have any right to give away what I earn. It's a flaw in democracy that private property is no longer respected. It should have never happened but as long as it does open borders will continue to drive down the American standard of living.

It looks to me like you either did not read or you did not understand Steuss’s post.