Nothing you claimed here survives even the most cursory honest and critical scrutiny. Whatever Joe Biden and his Son, Hunter were accused of in the Ukraine, even if true, pales into insignificance compared to what Trump has demonstrably been guilty of throughout his Presidency,
The way I understand the Biden issue is not a comparison of wrongdoing but a matter of what Trump's intent was. If prima facie evidence existed for Trump to be weary of a country's corruption then he wasn't acting on an intent to just malign a political opponent. The knowledge of the Hunter Biden issue was pretty commonplace by the time of the call.
Nixon's inquiry vote was 410 to 4 obviously bipartisan. 44 percent of Republicans backed impeachment. The Clinton impeachment was much more partisan but actual charges existed that were beyond dispute, (I would have voted against impeachment then). Obstruction was found by a Court. And there were 31 democrats who joined the chorus. Partisanship matters. Especially to independents like me. We don't want impeachment to be this divided and partisan because we don't join those partisan lines.
I just don't see how an eye doesn't even bat at how divided this is.
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
I just don't see how an eye doesn't even bat at how divided this is.
mikwut
There is one party responsible for this state of affairs. It’s a serious problem, but not in the way you imply. That said, it sounds like you have given political parties a simple key to be lawless. Stand in partisan solidarity against accountability and you are home free.
Gunnar wrote:Still, despite my misgivings concerning Joe Biden, I would almost infinitely more rather have him as President than the criminal who now occupies the Whitehouse.
I just don't see how an eye doesn't even bat at how divided this is.
mikwut
There is one party responsible for this state of affairs. It’s a serious problem, but not in the way you imply. That said, it sounds like you have given political parties a simple key to be lawless. Stand in partisan solidarity against accountability and you are home free.
I like the way you put it, and I tend to read what mikwut implied the same way. The mere fact that this situation is proving to be so rigidly partisan is in itself a huge reason for alarm. What Trump has done is so blatant and corrupt that opposition to him should be bipartisan or nonpartisan for everyone who honestly considered the evidence.
If Trump is acquitted in the Senate impeachment trial, he will almost certainly up the ante even more and try something even more outrageous eventually, just like he always has every previous time he got away with something. I think it likely that he will eventually push the envelope of what he tries to get away with so far that even a majority of Republican leaders will start demanding his removal from office.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
I hope Trump is not removed from office. Mike Pence would be one of the most dangerous Republicans to run for re-election. There wouldn't be a lot of political dirt on him.
Gunnar wrote:Still, despite my misgivings concerning Joe Biden, I would almost infinitely more rather have him as President than the criminal who now occupies the Whitehouse.
But I like that Biden is going to do everything in his power to cure cancer.
I don't think Biden is the best available Presidential candidate, but I don't know that he is a criminal.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Gunnar wrote:I don't think Biden is the best available Presidential candidate, but I don't know that he is a criminal.
Biden is not really a criminal, he didn't break the law. Biden (and most of the US congress) didn't read a very very important document that he was supposed to read before voting for the Iraq invasion. https://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/us-in ... s-in-iraq/
There is one party responsible for this state of affairs. It’s a serious problem, but not in the way you imply. That said, it sounds like you have given political parties a simple key to be lawless. Stand in partisan solidarity against accountability and you are home free.
By only seeing one party responsible is the same as just saying the madness of crowds makes you right. Your statement is a perfect example of the rhetoric used on both sides, general statements that can be applied to either side. Each side claiming constitutional righteousness, both claiming patriot motivation, both claiming obviousness of the issues, etc... But after your pitch partisanship is important for many reasons and blaming an entire party for the problem of complete and utter partisanship leaves you with what we started with, complete and utter partisanship that remains.
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
DoubtingThomas wrote:Biden is not really a criminal, he didn't break the law. Biden (and most of the US congress) didn't read a very very important document that he was supposed to read before voting for the Iraq invasion. https://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/us-in ... s-in-iraq/
That alone makes him a monster.
Then, I guess, most of the Congress critters are monsters. I don't necessarily dispute that. Let's resolve to do what we can to minimize the number monsters in our government.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
There is one party responsible for this state of affairs. It’s a serious problem, but not in the way you imply. That said, it sounds like you have given political parties a simple key to be lawless. Stand in partisan solidarity against accountability and you are home free.
By only seeing one party responsible is the same as just saying the madness of crowds makes you right. Your statement is a perfect example of the rhetoric used on both sides, general statements that can be applied to either side. Each side claiming constitutional righteousness, both claiming patriot motivation, both claiming obviousness of the issues, etc... But after your pitch partisanship is important for many reasons and blaming an entire party for the problem of complete and utter partisanship leaves you with what we started with, complete and utter partisanship that remains.
mikwut
You are giving a party that is acting in relentless bad faith absolute veto power over the legitimacy of impeachment for any act. This is either cynical or naïve, but it is not good. The problem is Trump has engaged in blatant impeachable acts, and only one party is responding to that with incorrigible dishonesty. That their partisan solidarity Trump's propriety is the problem.
If you can only say both sides claim to be right, then I suggest you put on your big boy pants and get better at analyzing those claims.
I don't necessarily dispute that. Let's resolve to do what we can to minimize the number monsters in our government. 