The WLC/SC "Something From Nothing" Cosmology Thread

[_Maksutov]

Sean Carroll "The Big Picture" demonstrates that it is not just a singular field of scientific studies and analysis that gives us our "picture" and "understanding" of our universe. It is a multiple field of many disciplines we must take into account and integrate. Your ideas on magnetism are interesting, but one needs all fields, disciplines, and contexts in order to give us a better view of reality, as it were. This is the defect of mere theism. God did it explains exactly nothing and does not elevate our knowledge in the dozens of fields necessary to grasp what little we do about the universe.

Franktalk's ideas require that virtually all physical scientists be involved in massive and ongoing fraud at all levels. So not only is it reaching back to the failed cosmic aether concept of centuries past but is also a vast conspiracy theory.

[_DrW]

Sean Carroll "The Big Picture" demonstrates that it is not just a singular field of scientific studies and analysis that gives us our "picture" and "understanding" of our universe. It is a multiple field of many disciplines we must take into account and integrate. Your ideas on magnetism are interesting, but one needs all fields, disciplines, and contexts in order to give us a better view of reality, as it were. This is the defect of mere theism. God did it explains exactly nothing and does not elevate our knowledge in the dozens of fields necessary to grasp what little we do about the universe.

Franktalk's ideas require that virtually all physical scientists be involved in massive and ongoing fraud at all levels. So not only is it reaching back to the failed cosmic aether concept of centuries past but is also a vast conspiracy theory.

Franktalk tipped his hand with mention of scalar (supposedly superluminal) electromagnetic waves. Now at least we know which crackpot websites he has been visiting.

Not surprising that Tesla's name comes up. Nickoli Tesla was a genius who helped give the world the foundations for alternating current (AC) power generation that allowed the use of transformers to adjust transmission and distribution voltages as needed, and thus give rise to a workable electrical transmission and distribution grid. However, time has shown that he was not always 100% accurate in his scientific pronouncements.

[_Franktalk]

Franktalk,

How do you know that "those who brought us electricity saw magnetism this way"? Do you really understand what 'those who brought us electricity' had to say on the subject?

Can you write down the equations that are used to describe electromagnetic interactions according to the view you tried to describe. Can the model be used to solve real world physics problems?

Can you refer us to any of their published original work? Don't just throw out names you picked up from some crackpot website. Please provide us with references to published works that are readily available.

Or is this just more of your nonsense? (Actually it is nonsense - but is it yours or that of someone else?)

As tempting as this seems. I will not go there. Let us just say that I have an opinion and let it go at that. The expectation that either of us would actually entertain the ideas of the other is just silly so I will not waste my time or yours.

However if you are serious about checking this out I will give you a starting point. This book calls into question the manner in which orthodox science expresses electromagnetic induction and gravity.

Causality Electromagnetic Induction and Gravitation by Oleg D. Jefimenko

Now you could read his book or you could as I expect use the internet to find a bad review of his work and post that. That would be a typical response. If you do read his work I would be happy to supply additional sources.

Peer reviewed publications are absolute crap. One giant self fulfilling prophecy. The next leap in understanding will be rejected by the peer review process.

[_Maksutov]

Let's see...does this apply to DrW or to FrankTalk?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology

Agnotology (formerly agnatology) is the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data. Robert N. Proctor, a Stanford University professor specializing in the history of science and technology,[1] and linguist Iain Boal coined[when?] the neologism[2][3][4] on the basis of the Neoclassical Greek word ἄγνωσις, agnōsis, "not knowing" (cf. Attic Greek ἄγνωτος "unknown"[5]), and -λογία, -logia.[6] More generally, the term also highlights the increasingly common condition where more knowledge of a subject leaves one more uncertain than before. David Dunning of Cornell University is another academic who studies the spread of ignorance. "Dunning warns that the internet is helping propagate ignorance – it is a place where everyone has a chance to be their own expert, he says, which makes them prey for powerful interests wishing to deliberately spread ignorance".[7]

[_Gadianton]

Peer reviewed publications are absolute crap. One giant self fulfilling prophecy. The next leap in understanding will be rejected by the peer review process.

Hey Franktalk, glad to see you're still experimenting with magnets. Irrespective of peer review, do you think you know more about magnetism than the people who built this?

[_Maksutov]

Peer reviewed publications are absolute crap. One giant self fulfilling prophecy. The next leap in understanding will be rejected by the peer review process.

Hey Franktalk, glad to see you're still experimenting with magnets. Irrespective of peer review, do you think you know more about magnetism than the people who built this?

Now, Dean Robbers, don't let your elitism blind you to the achievements of amateurs:

[Guest]

Franktalk,

How do you know that "those who brought us electricity saw magnetism this way"? Do you really understand what 'those who brought us electricity' had to say on the subject?

Can you write down the equations that are used to describe electromagnetic interactions according to the view you tried to describe. Can the model be used to solve real world physics problems?

Can you refer us to any of their published original work? Don't just throw out names you picked up from some crackpot website. Please provide us with references to published works that are readily available.

Or is this just more of your nonsense? (Actually it is nonsense - but is it yours or that of someone else?)

As tempting as this seems. I will not go there. Let us just say that I have an opinion and let it go at that. The expectation that either of us would actually entertain the ideas of the other is just silly so I will not waste my time or yours.

However if you are serious about checking this out I will give you a starting point. This book calls into question the manner in which orthodox science expresses electromagnetic induction and gravity.

Causality Electromagnetic Induction and Gravitation by Oleg D. Jefimenko

Now you could read his book or you could as I expect use the internet to find a bad review of his work and post that. That would be a typical response. If you do read his work I would be happy to supply additional sources.

Peer reviewed publications are absolute crap. One giant self fulfilling prophecy. The next leap in understanding will be rejected by the peer review process.

Franktalk,

Your mention of scalar electromagnetic waves was a tip-off as to what websites you were visiting to get your "special" information regarding physics.

As you suggested, I found a link to the book you mentioned, on Amazon, and read the Table of Contents. After doing so, I did not feel like paying $22 to be informed that scalar EM waves exist and are superluminal (both of which would violate the laws of physics).

If you own a pair of glare blocking sunglasses, or have ever watched a movie in a theater in 3D, you know that the polarization of light (the visible frequency portion of the electromagnetic spectrum) is a reality and that it can be controlled.

The fact that light can be polarized means it must propagate as a transverse wave, the characteristics of which are best described mathematically by the use of vectors. (All those del operators and cross products that appear in the differential form of Maxwell's equations are a pretty good indication that vectors are involved.)

As the name implies, scalar (rank 0 tensor) waves do not have vector (rank 1 tensor) properties. Scalar waves (also known as longitudinal waves or compression waves) are the way in which sound propagates. Polarization of scalar waves is not possible (provided that one adheres to the conventional meaning of words such as scalar, vector, transverse and polarization.) Since scalar waves cannot be polarized - by definition - it is highly unlikely that electromagnetic waves are scalar.

On the other hand, electromagnetic waves are polarizable, and transverse, and completely described by mathematics involving vector quantities in classical (Newtonian, Hamiltonian and Lagrangian) mechanics. As mentioned already, when one gets to general relativity, higher order tensors may be required to get the job done.

So, I did look into the "special knowledge" you described in sufficient detail to call PS (pseudoscience) on non-existent scalar electromagnetic waves, propagating through a non-existent ether, at non-existent information propagation speeds greater than the speed of light.

[_Maksutov]

Here's a more lowbrow commentary:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scalar_wave

A scalar wave is a purported type of electromagnetic wave that works outside physics as we know it.
The central conceit is that scalar waves restore certain useful aspects of Maxwell's equations "discarded" in the 19th century by those fools Heaviside, Hertz and Gibbs.[1] Nikola Tesla was also interested in them, in his more-than-a-little-odd period.

Free energy advocates have pushed the concept since the 1990s,[2] particularly Thomas E. Bearden. It has since been adopted by some alternative medicine practitioners as the new "quantum": a universally-applicable sciencey handwave to support any arbitrary claim whatsoever.[3] Conspiracy theorists hold that it is behind weather-changing superweapons that brought down space shuttle Columbia.

................

In the land of woo

Free energy subculture

The main current proponent of scalar wave pseudophysics is zero-point energy advocate Thomas E. Bearden, who has concocted an entire pseudoscientific "scalar field theory" unrelated to anything in actual physics of that name. It starts with Maxwell's equations originally having been written as quaternions; Bearden holds that the (mathematical) transformation to vectors lost important information.[1]

Bearden says that scalar waves differ from conventional electromagnetic transverse waves by having two oscillations anti-parallel with each other, each originating from opposite charge sources, thereby lacking any net directionality. The waves are conjugates of each other, and so, if left unperturbed, can pass through ordinary matter with relative ease. So they are not included in mainstream physics. They don't work like ordinary longitudinal waves either. (Got that?)[6]

You can apparently make scalar waves with a bifilar coil (one wound with a pair of wires instead of a single wire) and pushing opposing currents through the wires (join the far ends together). So if you want to experiment with this stuff, you can build a remarkable just-post-steampunk lab filled with coils and wires and sparks.[7] The really astonishing thing about this — which fascinated Tesla for years and years[8] — is that you can pour practically limitless amounts of power into such an apparatus and achieve precisely nothing other than converting electricity into heat — each of the two wires in the coil produces a magnetic field, but since the currents are going in opposite directions, the two magnetic fields cancel out.

Richard C. Hoagland thinks Col. Bearden is dead right. So much so that he has adopted Bearden's view and given it a different name, "hyperdimensional physics." According to him, the vectorization of Maxwell's quaternions eliminated a whole dimension from which energy magically appears. Hoagland is so mathematically challenged that it's doubtful if he even understands what a quaternion is, let alone knows how to use one in a calculation. Certainly in all he has written and said about HD physics[9] he has never cited a single one of the quaternions.

[_Franktalk]

Thanks for the response.

So typical.

[_Fence Sitter]

Hey Frank,

You have had two people provide substantial responses to your claims or at least the appear to for an uniformed outsider who knows nothing about those claims.

Can you at least try and make a small attempt at a rebuttal because for the rest of us, all we see is someone making an unsubstantiated claim and then wave off any replies as"typical". If you really don't care what others think about it, why even bother to offer the alternative?

And please, links or references to books that one has to purchase, are of little help and certainly, if you are not going to bother to provide anything of substance, why should anyone bother to read your links or book?

Please surprise me and come back with something that makes one stop and question what others have said, rather than some sort of dismissive response.