Trump's "Non-Starter"

[_Kevin Graham]

Republicans are refusing to negotiate anything important for the wall because they correctly view the wall as not important. But Trump is willing to shut down the government over it without negotiating anything of real value and Republicans are willing to walk with Trump off a cliff despite prior votes, so that's why we stand where we do.

Trump's inexperience in government and incompetence at negotiation is becoming his undoing. He just keeps digging his hole even deeper with these idiotic rants as the polls swing more and more in favor of the Democrats. His case wasn't helped by his comment that said, and I'm paraphrasing, "I'm going to get the wall one way or the other."

Oh, really? And how foolish is he going to look when the courts strike down his "National Emergency" gambit to use funds appropriated for wildfires and hurricane relief?

He keeps acting like he has the upper hand and that he's only trying to negotiate with the lesser folks because he's a nice guy or whatever. He wants us to believe no one can stop him from doing what he wants to do because that is the image he has been projecting all this time. In reality Pelosi is his equal, and her experience here is more than he can handle.

[_Kevin Graham]

The Democrats could just give him the money and the government would open up immediately.

- Doc

Yes, one can always pay the hostage takers.

Exactly. No sure why this is hard to understand. Hostage taking is precisely what this is.

If Democrats just throw their hands up and say OK, we'll do whatever you want, then this would set a horrible precedent for future Presidents to do the exact same thing. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this, and hopefully the Democrats will stand their ground till the end. It certainly isn't working in Trump's favor thus far.

Every reason he gives for a Wall is undermined by the fact that it wasn't that important to him until FOX News criticized him in December, and border/national security is being weakened by the shutdown. That was the whole point of the wall, right? Security? So far people are flying around the country armed, and I just wonder how many domestic terrorists are taking notice and wondering if this is their opportune moment to strike. If that happens, and it very easily could, Trump should be impeached and tried for treason.

[_huckelberry]

I gather Trump proposes to delay his threat of deporting dreamers a couple of years. In exchange for this, who is supposed to be grateful for what?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I don't know who on either side thinks this is a good idea, but it seems like they're both ok with entrenchment until the next round of elections? Shutting down the government to get your way is deviant behavior. It’s immature, irresponsible, and damaging to good hard-working Americans.

- Doc

[_Kevin Graham]

I don't know who on either side thinks this is a good idea, but it seems like they're both ok with entrenchment until the next round of elections? Shutting down the government to get your way is deviant behavior. It’s immature, irresponsible, and damaging to good hard-working Americans.

- Doc

This is American Government 101 stuff and it seems like you haven't listened to a damned word anyone has said here. This is not a "both sides" issue. Anyone who doesn't know a Presidential veto can be overridden by Congress has no business trying to engage in these conversations. But feel free to keep making an ass of yourself.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

KOAB,

What would happen if the Democrats gave Drumpf his $5B? Would he get re-elected? Also, you're the human equivalent of an adobe brick.

- Doc

[_subgenius]

Yes, one can always pay the hostage takers.

well, that's an ignorant analogy. but keep repeating it ad nausea in hopes that it can pick up where Stormy left off, then Manafort, the North Korea, then Russia, then Taxes, then Acosta, then Kavanaugh, the Russia again...etc

i gotta tell ya, i don't think any of these are going to be a proper salve for your disappointment with Mueller report.

[_canpakes]

Yes, one can always pay the hostage takers.

well, that's an ignorant analogy. but keep repeating it ad nausea in hopes that it can pick up where Stormy left off, then Manafort, the North Korea, then Russia, then Taxes, then Acosta, then Kavanaugh, the Russia again...etc

i gotta tell ya, i don't think any of these are going to be a proper salve for your disappointment with Mueller report.

You seem to be confused about the topic of this thread.

[_subgenius]

You seem to be confused about the topic of this thread.

FYI, You inadvertently cited me when addressing Res's comment about "hostages".

[_honorentheos]

Republicans are refusing to negotiate anything important for the wall because they correctly view the wall as not important. But Trump is willing to shut down the government over it without negotiating anything of real value and Republicans are willing to walk with Trump off a cliff despite prior votes, so that's why we stand where we do.

These are all important points, especially the first one.

For the polititians involved, the pressure to end a shutdown comes from people affected by it blaming them for their pain. The gamesmanship is over trying to make sure there are more fingers being pointed at the other side than at one's own. Right now, Democrats feel the pressure is largely on Republicans because most fingers are pointed at Donald Trump or one hand pointing to Trump and the other at Pelosi. In ordinary calculus this means a win for them. The challenge is that Trump already blinked once over the national blame game. His current entrenchment isn't because he feels secure in believing he can push the blame for the shutdown onto Democrats. It's from having been stared down hard by his base with Ann Coulter at the front. He doesn't have an out and he went into it knowing he starts with all the blame so the process will only be one of more fingers pointing at both. In a sad way, time favors Trump for this reason as more people begin to act like Cam is in this thread - "Just give him what he wants, why should everyone suffer for a meaningless wall? END THE PAIN, Nancy Pelosi! Quit being stubborn!" What this is basically acknowledging is that Trump isn't going to be the adult in the room and the person with this view doesn't see any problem with giving a trantrum-throwing kid/hostage taking terrorist what they demand (<-pick which ever makes you feel best I guess) because they just want the kid to shut up/terrorist threat to go away. Of course, the short term fix means the kid/terrorist now knows they have a winning tactic to get what they want so what this actually ensures is more of the thing they wish to see stopped but hey, since when was society good at looking at the long term rather than short term consequences anyway?

So here's the thing that is being talked past - the actual Republican party is not getting fingered over this and has done a remarkable job of letting Trump take the blame. Mitch McConnell has convinced everyone that it's out of his control to do anything so long as Trump will veto any bill he doesn't authorize, so almost no one is pointing at him or the House Republicans. And right now, why should they do anything that changes that? They don't want the wall because they didn't promise it. They don't want the concessions that Democrats are likely to need to see in order to take a deal. So what leverage is there to make them do anything besides stand on the sidelines as long as the American people - and Democrat leadership - don't realize this is not a two-party blame game but atleast a three party one? And one of those parties is winning BIGGLY because they are barely getting talked about.

Democrats need to dog walk Mitch McConnell into the middle of this fight for anything to change. They don't seem to recognize this and that he's poised to claim he is the only grown-up left in the room when this gets worse.