The Greatest NBA Player: 5 on 5 Clone Game

[Guest]

I've said it before, but Steph is the Babe Ruth of basketball: Steph Curry did for the 3 point shot what Babe Ruth did for the home run. They both changed the way the game is played. Steph can be streaky, and he still makes too many mental errors. But when he gets hot, I think he's the most electrifying player in basketball.

Here's an interesting idea for the 5 on 5 clone game: What if one clone is having a bad night? How well do the other clones adapt?

One guy who never gets mentioned is Pete Maravich, one of the greatest scorers of all time. Maravich was something of a narcissist in a team sport, which definitely took a lot of sheen off his game. If Pete's father would have bowed out of his professional life, and had Maravich played for a great coach like Red Auerbach, he might have been one of the all-time greats. Rarely known for his defense, but his ball handling and shooting skills were all-world. Like a lot of athletes that are mentored and groomed by overbearing fathers, he was a bit of a head case. For me, Pete is one of the great 'what ifs' of basketball.

HUH...Wilt Chamberlain is the Babe Ruth of Basketball, Steph is the Millennial of modern basket ball...Next year will be critical for his legacy, with Durant and Klay out for most the season, he is going to be hammered...Boggie and Green better have career years and protect him.

I mentioned Pistol Pete...a match up between he and Jason Williams. That would be fun to watch.

I'm with you, if Pete would have played for say the Lakers or Celtics in his prime...it would'New Testament have been fun.

What if's is another fun topic...off the top of my head...Connie Hawkin's, David Thompson (Crack problem) once scored 73 points in a game, Len Bias, Bill Walton (foot).

Dominic Wilkin's on the Lakers over Worthy (they chose Worthy over Dominic in the Draft). As a Life long Laker fan I would change having James, but ...what if?

[_Markk]

This thread made me troll advanced basketball stats for a bit. One thing that struck me:

Curry is 7th all time in eFG% right now. Every single person above him is a center, several of which of just niche use guys. Shaq and Artis Gilmore are the only two who are more than that, though obviously both were limited to post play. Gilmore, interestingly, is more statistically similar to Shaq than I would have guessed. Slightly different games, but reasonbly similar results over career.

The best eFG% players are basically high % post players and Curry. There's a few shooters here and there, but none that are high volume scorers. Curry is nuts. In terms of career scoring efficiency from range, he's in a tier by himself.

HUH... https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... areer.html. He is not in the top 250 in actual FG%

JaVale McGee is 15th all time....in eFG% are you going to take him over Dirk who is 167 on the list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4rdeN0F-XE

[_EAllusion]

LOL.. Isiaih along with Clyde and Stockton are the three greatest prototype 1's....period, and all three play tenacious defense.

Clyde is SG/SF, not a 1. That's not that important, though. We're in the era of positionless basketball where people have figured out that those defined roles aren't as important as skillset contributions on the floor.

Thomas was a very good defender. That's not enough. Put Mookie Blaylock on your team if you think it is.

Thomas could not shoot. This is a problem. He took very few threes per game and hit an atrocious % because he was bad at it. You should question why someone who has Thomas's ability to defend, pass, and rebound at the 1 has a hard time winning a starting job these days. People have learned more about what wins games, and Thomas's skill set is not ideal.

Jason Kidd was a better defender than Thomas. His defensive win shares eclipse Thomas easily. He was also a better pure point and rebounder. Why not him? I wouldn't recommend Jason Kidd for an all-time team either. The prime version of him was also a bad shooter, but he's a better version of what you want out of Thomas too.

Steph, he would make him Cry.

What's he gonna do? Take over one of his businesses and mismanage it into the ground? I'm not sure Curry is going to be shedding too many tears about getting to rest on defense because Thomas can't knock down a long range shot. If Thomas plays Curry tight, then that makes it a 4 on 4 game, which is all the better for the team. If Thomas doesn't play Curry tight, then Curry will make it rain on him just like everyone else.

Isaiah, along with Stockton and Frazier, were voted on the 50 greatest players of all time team, by his peers...you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

Hence overrrated.

I thought hard about either Stockton or Thomas, but choose Isaiah for his speed, and his rings, something Stockton failed to get.

Yeah, that Stockton really sucked at drafting players to play with him. Curry has 3 rings if you are being consistent about individual rings somehow equaling greatness in a team sport. I'm pretty sure my team also has more rings than your team. My guards have more rings than your guards. It wasn't that long ago that you were talking up Reggie Miller as better than Curry. How many rings does Miller have again?

Back in reality, rings are a very poor measure of quality as they are dependent on numerous factors outside of individual control.

Turnovers...he average 3.8 and Steph averages 3.1

You are aware that's a big gap, right? That's especially the case when you adjust for pace.

Magic averages almost 4 and Lebron about the same. Hardly a machine, it is one more a game more than Stockton...I can live with that.

Lebron doesn't get ball handling duties on an all-time team. Magic you live with because his height allows you to do special things. But that's a drawback too. He'll be asked to take less chances with this type of team, so that should cut the problem down a bit, but he's still going to be a little more turnover prone than you'd want because he's tall and consequently his dribble is looser.

Isaiah is listed as 6-1 and steph is listed 6-3...which means nothing.

[/quote]

This may come as a surprise, but height is a key factor in basketball. It allows you to see and shoot over people. Steph is going to have to overcome his height too, but 2 inches is 2 inches. I'm not feeling great about him facing down backcourts of Magic and Jordan's and the like. The upshot is his effect on the offense is otherworldly. Thomas is a liability. Curry is not a great defender, but he is a + defender believe it or not.

[_Markk]

Clyde Frazier is a point guard. Hall of famer. 50 all time greatest, and a top ten greatest defender of all time.

[_EAllusion]

HUH... https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... areer.html. He is not in the top 250 in actual FG%

JaVale McGee is 15th all time....in eFG% are you going to take him over Dirk who is 167 on the list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4rdeN0F-XE

You don't appear to be able to read what eFG% means in context. There are clues in the post you are quoting. A low volume post player who only takes and makes easy shots around the basket is going to score a high % of the time. This is not particularly valuable because you cannot generate reliable offense from this. That's not what Steph Curry is doing. That Steph Curry scores with an efficiency comparable to a player who scores a few points a game on put-backs around the basket is extremely impressive.

[_Markk]

Thomas was a great defender and averaged about 9 assists a game and 18 or 19 points...that is elite. He was a scorer.

[_Markk]

Why did I pick Isaiah over Kidd...because he is better. That is a dumb question.

[_Markk]

Thomas would play Curry tight, as would Payton and Clyde..and Curry could not come close to matching up defensively with the Glove, Isaiah, or Clyde.

[_EAllusion]

Clyde Frazier is a point guard. Hall of famer. 50 all time greatest, and a top ten greatest defender of all time.

I thought you were referring to Clyde Drexler, not Walter Frazier.

Importing older guards into the modern NBA is tough, but if you take him relative to his time he's a legit pick. I don't have a good sense of his range, but my knowledge of him and his underlying raw stats suggest someone who could adapt to the modern game and still be great. He was great defensively. More so than Thomas.

An all around much better pick than Thomas.

[_Markk]

How is being voted as one of the 50 best basketball players ever...overrated?