Israel

[Vēritās]

Weird that a people who experienced an attempt at genocide are themselves supremacists in attitude and behavior towards Arabs and Palestinians in particular.

- Doc

No kidding. And now Israel is arresting its own citizens for merely criticizing their onslaught in Gaza.

Israel Arresting People For Pro-Palestine Facebook Posts

This poor guy is a high school history teacher who started posting images of Palestinians and their stories because he felt like too many Israelis didn't view them as human. He wanted to reveal their humanity to his fellow countrymen and was immediately arrested, put in handcuffs, had his legs shackled and then thrown in jail for "sedition." When his attorney insisted they couldn't do that without express permission from higher ups, the police changed the charge to something else and then interrogated him for days. He received support from hundreds of people who wrote him saying they couldn't risk speaking out publicly because they have jobs and children and they didn't want to be imprisoned along with him. This is our "democratic" ally in the Middle East?

Jesus H. Christ. If I'm a fascist for wanting our government to deny FOX News its "News" credentials, then what the hell does this make Israel for violating the rights of its own citizens in the name of continued genocide?

[yellowstone123]

Veritas, I like your passion but I think history shows that after the war for independence in Israel concluded, they just wanted to be left alone, to thrive and conduct their own business. It’s only when their neighbors wouldn’t allow it did they act.

On 10/07/2023 Gaza attacked Israel at a time of great division inside Israel regarding judicial overhaul of their Supreme Court. The nationalist party - Likud (Menachem Begin; Benjamin Netanyahu) obtained power. There were peaceful demonstrations in Israel about what was going on; how long it took for him to form a government.The Times of Israel and the Jpost wrote scathing editorials about Netanyahu and the corruption that seem to follow him.

Not anymore: pretty much everyone in Israel backs Netanyahu today including those two papers. The event unified reform, conservative and Orthodox Jews.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Veritas, I like your passion but I think history shows that after the war for independence in Israel concluded, they just wanted to be left alone, to thrive and conduct their own business. It’s only when their neighbors wouldn’t allow it did they act.

On 10/07/2023 Gaza attacked Israel at a time of great division inside Israel regarding judicial overhaul of their Supreme Court. The nationalist party - Likud (Menachem Begin; Benjamin Netanyahu) obtained power. There were peaceful demonstrations in Israel about what was going on; how long it took for him to form a government.The Times of Israel and the Jpost wrote scathing editorials about Netanyahu and the corruption that seem to follow him.

Not anymore: pretty much everyone in Israel backs Netanyahu today including those two papers. The event unified reform, conservative and Orthodox Jews.

It doesn’t matter what government is in power.

- Doc

[Vēritās]

Veritas, I like your passion but I think history shows that after the war for independence in Israel concluded, they just wanted to be left alone, to thrive and conduct their own business. It’s only when their neighbors wouldn’t allow it did they act.

No, that's not what history shows.

pretty much everyone in Israel backs Netanyahu today including those two papers. The event unified reform, conservative and Orthodox Jews.

I'm sure that is precisely what the Israeli propaganda machine hopes you'll believe, but the fact is not all Jews are Zionists and the Israeli gestapo isn't quite able to suppress the truth from getting out, no matter how many journalists they detain, arrest or kill.

Israeli anger at Netanyahu erupts at hospital bedsides

Orthodox Jews Assaulted by Israeli Police Officers in Jerusalem

I don't know how anyone who has paid any amount of attention to any legit media these days could miss out on the fact that Netanyahu's political career is officially on the ropes.

Netanyahu's two-front war against Hamas and for his own political survival

[yellowstone123]

Thanks Doc and Veritas. I agree Doc, that many times it doesn’t matter who is in power. All parties have been Prime Minister when Jews had to put their plow down and grab a gun. It happened with David Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir and Menachem Begin who would have loved to stay in the Ukraine, Poland and Russia, but again their neighbors, didn’t want that and they faced pogroms. If I remember right, they were all from the Pale of Settlement.

I’d refer you to two books: A Land of Our Own and My Life by Golda Meir. In the book My Life there is a chapter entitled “I choose Palestine.” She relocated from Eastern Europe to Milwaukee, Wisconsin where she came to the conclusion as a non religious Jew that she would embrace Social Zionism and moved to a kibbutz in British Palestine. Her first application for a kibbutz was turned down as they saw her too Americanized, but she was accepted the second time. David Ben-Gurion, a non religious Jew, helped create the Mapai party. They were what people would call left wing. They had changed their names to a more Hebrew name at Ben-Gurion’s insistence.

Menachem Begin would start the Likud Party in which Netanyahu would embraced. A former leader of the Irgun, he and his men set off a bomb at the King David Hotel in British Palestine that killed many people. Begin as Prime Minister and Anwar Sadat would form a peace deal at the insistence of U.S. President Jimmy Carter. They would receive the Nobel Prize. Sadat would be killed by his own troops a few years later because of the deal.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Thanks Doc and Veritas. I agree Doc, that many times it doesn’t matter who is in power. All parties have been Prime Minister when Jews had to put their plow down and grab a gun. It happened with David Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir and Menachem Begin who would have loved to stay in the Ukraine, Poland and Russia, but again their neighbors, didn’t want that and they faced pogroms. If I remember right, they were all from the Pale of Settlement.

I think you’re romanticizing when, why, and where the Jews had to pick up the gun. This:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -territory

is also picking up the gun, but in a really disgusting and nefarious way. The world stood by and let it happen because of the Holocaust and fear of being labeled an antisemite. That crap is over*, friend. They burned a LOT of goodwill on this maniacal war.

- Doc

* what I mean by that is there are now generations of people who are born not having any connection,whatsoever, to the Holocaust, but grew up under this weird threat if you don’t agree with some aspect of Jewish whatever, you’re an antisemite. In other words, there’s this completely untouchable ethnicity, who appears to be ubiquitous in media, politics, banking, law, medicine, other high-end professions (that are often gate kept), but they act like victims when legitimately criticized for something. It’s baffling and kind of infuriating for upcoming generations who only see what’s going on now, and don’t give two craps what happened 90 years ago.

[yellowstone123]

Thanks Doc. I agree in many ways. I agree that antisemite is used too often if a person doesn't agree with a certain things Israel is doing just like racist is used too often by people. As for me romanticizing something, I’ve been called on that many times before. I wish you the best.

[Jersey Girl]

I’d refer you to two books: A Land of Our Own and My Life by Golda Meir. In the book My Life there is a chapter entitled “I choose Palestine.”

Thank you for these. If you have more please post the titles here.

[yellowstone123]

Thanks Jersey Girl, I’ll check. Additionally I would refer you to the Jewish Lives Series or Jewish Encounters Series. There are lists on Amazon of each series. If you select a book you like, then go to Abesbooks.com to buy it or ask your library. Avoid Owl Books in Toledo on the that site.

[Jersey Girl]

Thanks Jersey Girl, I’ll check. Additionally I would refer you to the Jewish Lives Series or Jewish Encounters Series. There are lists on Amazon of each series. If you select a book you like, then go to Abesbooks.com to buy it or ask your library. Avoid Owl Books in Toledo on the that site.

Do you have anything for me that goes back to the Old Testament borders that were reportedly taken from the Canaanites and gifted to the Hebrews by Yahweh and moves forward in time? I know, for example, that there are multiple and different books titled "Whose land is it anyway"?

Got something like that?

I know what the borders were originally according to the Old Testament. I want to know how and why they changed over time. Kind of like the maps that Cam posted but with the historical information that explains the shifting of borders and how that came to be.

I want to try to understand how we got to where we are today. If that's even possible in one single book which I doubt.